SGM Ogle entered the Army as an Infantryman in May 1990 and has climbed the ranks from PV2 to Command Sergeant Major. Throughout his 33 years of service, Sergeant Major Ogle has proven his commitment by never walking away from a challenging assignment, even when outside his comfort zone. He has served at every level of NCO leadership and multiple Senior NCO Leadership positions throughout his career, including First Sergeant, Battalion Command Sergeant Major, Commandant and Regimental CSM of an NCO Academy, and the G3 Operations Sergeant Major. He is also a part of Operation Boot Crew, a non-profit organization that supports deployed troops. He currently serves as the senior enlisted advisor for the Florida Counterdrug Task Force in the Florida National Guard.
Connect with Lawrence:
Facebook: Lawrence M Ogle / Operationbootcrew
Instagram: @infantryguru
Twitter: @infantryguru
TikTok: @infantryguru
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-Leadership Resources:https://linktr.ee/McMillionLeadership
-Resilence-Based Leadership Program: https://resiliencebuildingleader.com/
-Discount Code: JMCMILLION
My Mission: I will end toxic leadership practices by equipping leaders with transformational leadership skills.
Together, we will impact 1 MILLION lives!!!
Every day is a gift, don't waste yours!
Joshua K. McMillion | Founder MLC
SGM Ogle entered the Army as an Infantryman in May 1990 and has climbed the ranks from PV2 to Command Sergeant Major. Throughout his 33 years of service, Sergeant Major Ogle has proven his commitment by never walking away from a challenging assignment, even when outside his comfort zone. He has served at every level of NCO leadership and multiple Senior NCO Leadership positions throughout his career, including First Sergeant, Battalion Command Sergeant Major, Commandant and Regimental CSM of an NCO Academy, and the G3 Operations Sergeant Major. He is also a part of Operation Boot Crew, a non-profit organization that supports deployed troops. He currently serves as the senior enlisted advisor for the Florida Counterdrug Task Force in the Florida National Guard.
Connect with Lawrence:
Facebook: Lawrence M Ogle / Operationbootcrew
Instagram: @infantryguru
Twitter: @infantryguru
TikTok: @infantryguru
✅ SHARE THIS PODCAST
✅ GIVE A 5-STAR REVIEW
✅ SUPPORT
-Leadership Resources:https://linktr.ee/McMillionLeadership
-Resilence-Based Leadership Program: https://resiliencebuildingleader.com/
-Discount Code: JMCMILLION
My Mission: I will end toxic leadership practices by equipping leaders with transformational leadership skills.
Together, we will impact 1 MILLION lives!!!
Every day is a gift, don't waste yours!
Joshua K. McMillion | Founder MLC
You're listening to the Tells the Leadership podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader what I like to call a pal. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership. Welcome back to Tells the Leadership podcast. I am your host, josh McMillian, an active duty Army officer and the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching. I am on a mission to create a better leader what I like to call a purposeful, accountable leader or a pal, and my vision is clear I want to impact 1 million lives in the next 10 years by promoting transformational stories and skills. On today's episode, I'm going to be interviewing a transformational leader, sergeant Major Lawrence Ogle. He is a purposeful, accountable leader.
Speaker 1:Sergeant Major Ogle entered the Army as an infantryman in the 1990s and has climbed the ranks from private first class to command Sergeant Major. Throughout his 33 years of service, sergeant Major Ogle has proven his commitment by never walking away from a challenging assignment, even when outside of his comfort zone. He has served at every level of non-commissioned leadership and multiple senior non-commissioned leadership positions throughout his career, to include First Sergeant, battalion Command Sergeant Major, commandant and Regimental Command Sergeant Major and the Non-Commission Officer Academy and the G3 Operations. Sergeant Major, he is also a part of Operation Boot Crew, a non-profit organization that supports deployed troops. He currently serves as a senior enlisted advisor to the Florida Counter Drug Task Force and is in the Florida National Guard. Let's go ahead and bring him on. Sergeant Major, welcome to the TELSA Leadership. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great, sir. Thank you so much. I'm super excited and honored to be here.
Speaker 1:It's an absolute honor and a privilege one to have you on this show, and I know I've followed you through social media, and when I was following you through social media I knew that you were going to be someone that I wanted to have on this show and be able to interview, because I feel that we have such a deep connection and a passion for leadership. And reading through your bio, I kind of humbled myself in a way of that. You have, I think it's almost 30, 33 years now of service and I mean that's truly amazing. But if you could just take an opportunity of defining who you are for our listeners.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I'm really and I want to put this humbly because I'm no different than the average Joe and I, you know I don't like to speak in cliches, but you know I'm really a down to earth type of person.
Speaker 2:You know and I don't know if you're going to ask me this, but just to tell you a little about myself I really had, no, no driver, direction or discipline. So when I joined the military, I found something that I really needed and it really set me up for a career and gave me the direction that I needed, to the point where, you know, I longed for it more and more. You know I was hungry for it and I've been very fortunate with, throughout my career, been in a lot of good positions, had a lot of great opportunities, met a lot of great people, and I really can't tell you how appreciative I am to to be on this podcast. Really it's I would consider it really kind of my first podcast. I was part of one other one, but I was super excited and I know I was a hard target to get a hold of. I know you and I went back and forth for about six months, so I'm glad to be here, sir, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I humbled that you would think that this is your first podcast. Yeah, it's, it's an honor. So kind of starting off with of how you define leadership and I always love starting off with this question because most of the people that I bring onto this show have different backgrounds. They're either in a strategic level leadership position, like where I was able to interview David Petraeus, or someone who is, like in an entrepreneurial space, and everyone has a different definition of leadership. So you're one of the first senior non-commissioned officers that's really climbed through the ranks of all the way to private to the highest rank within the non-commissioned officer core. How do you define leadership? And I'd love if you could kind of walk me through, maybe, how that has changed as you've matured in the army.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely so. I you know there's a lot of book definitions out there that are that are great, you know, um, you know providing, being able to provide motivation and direction and things like that to soldiers. But again, to kind of go back to what I said earlier, I feel things, especially in the leadership realm, have really become so cliche. Right, we read these definitions of, or regulations of, what they say leaders ought to be, and by all means they are a great foundation, but I've been in long enough to see how that has truly evolved. Um, and you know, to make it very simple, I think leadership boils down to not the individual but the team. Right, that's really what I look about.
Speaker 2:Leadership, my, my success isn't defined by what I do. It's defined on how my team you know, how I've built my team and how they, how successful they are. That's what I've learned and look for, uh, in a true leader. You know if, if, if, I'm going to be considered a great leader, I want to. I want to be able to look back and say, yeah, you know, I had a part of this person's life or this person's career, or their promotion or or whatever, and those success levels, uh, as they progress and become leaders themselves.
Speaker 1:That tells me kind of that I've been doing the right thing, I remember when I, when I got an email from you, from your, your government email, of how we had such an alignment, almost in a way the first quote that I've ever read that kind of stuck with me and I think you read the book through to. It's a John Maxwell's of five levels of leadership quote in there by John Quincy Adams, and it just happened to be at the bottom of your email. Uh and it. It's a sticky quote and I absolutely love it. But it it bears repeating, especially now, because I think it aligns with your definition of leadership. But if your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you're a leader and really defined as a team. I love that definition.
Speaker 2:And, and you know, sir, I, I, I didn't learn that overnight, that's for sure. You know, 10, 15 years ago I was that hard-nosed infantry leader who still, you know, barked out orders and, and you know, I've, I've had to evolve my leadership style because of a changing environment around us, not just with society but the changing environment within the military. And then add to that, you know, the changing environment of the generation of soldiers that we have today are different than the generation that I grew up in.
Speaker 1:I never thought about that and that's something really interesting to maybe dig into. Well, because I I'm at a point in my career now and I say that is because I'm starting to see changes within soldiers that I didn't realize before. So when I was a company commander, rifle company commander and then an HAC company commander versus looking at what the army is now, my command experience, I think, would be totally different. And I don't necessarily say that the army's changing as much, but the individuals who are joining the army are, and that is a unique challenge that I never thought of is that the longer you stay in, especially in the military, how you have to be able to adapt to those individuals that are that are joining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's uh. It's been a difficult journey in some ways. You know, thank goodness I had some some good mentors along the way, uh, who, who now are retired, but they shared some uh nuggets of wisdom with me about it and I and I guess they they saw it coming right, so they shared with me. Hey, if you're going to be an effective leader, you have got to learn to adapt and evolve your leadership style um to to soldiers, um, you know not, and I kind of think of it like when I try to to explain this to people, because not everybody gets it, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Uh, but I, when I try to explain it to people, I think of it as in school or as in education, right, some students, um, can sit in a lecture and learn, some students need to read, some students need to do hands on all different forms of education, but they're learning and the ultimate goal is, at the end, you know that they are successful and they graduate. And I think it's the same way with with soldiers. Today we have a uh generation of soldiers that that interact differently, that learn differently, and if you only have one style of leadership, then I don't think you are going to be an effective leader. Um, yeah, you still might get things done, but I've learned as I've gone along the way that, uh, I have to evolve my styles of leadership and it's going to be different with, maybe, each soldier that I interact with and deal with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that that's beautiful. Um, then I'm really kind of learning that now that I'm at that field grade rank of where words matter, yeah, more so. As you know, as a young lieutenant I could always be like that fiery infantry lieutenant of you know, getting hot headed and making rash decisions. But as you grow and rank you can't do that, and what made me successful as a lieutenant and the captain will not make me successful as a major and then eventually a lieutenant colonel, and I'm learning that.
Speaker 1:But that is such a deep truth that you just said is that you can't just have one leadership style, and I always look into leadership as it's a journey, and I know John Maxwell talks about that. It's a process, it's a journey we're never ending and that's the beauty about it is that we're never going to to master it. It's something that's almost entertaining until until we're no longer here. Um, so we have to just continue to grow. That I'd love to take a time to. Where did your leadership journey begin? And and maybe starting around, you know, 1990, when you joined the army as a young infantryman?
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, coming in in the nineties there was still that hard core, uh, you know knife hand, let you lecturing type leadership, and you know it worked and I was very fortunate, although I did not see it at the time. But looking back over my career, um, the way my career started off some would say uh, was horrible. I look at it, I look at it as a blessing. Um, I, I graduated boot camp August 24th of 1990. That was the same time that, uh, saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait right.
Speaker 2:Six days later after I graduated, I was in the deserts of Saudi Arabia getting ready to go to desert storm right and wasn't assigned to a unit. And, uh, I was there with 80 of my cohorts and they started assigning us to different units and somebody came in to the tent and said, hey, we need volunteers to go to Lurs long range surveillance. I had no idea what it was, but the guy sitting next to me says, oh, yeah, man, we need to do that. And I volunteered and it was probably the greatest uh opportunity that I've had starting off in my career. It set me up, I believe, for success because I had some phenomenal leaders, starting at the E four level right At the team leader level and the squad leader level and working in a small team like that with as operators, you know the discipline level and the standards level, not to mention you know the smoking's and all the things that went along with that along the way.
Speaker 2:But it taught me the importance of discipline and standards and leadership. These guys didn't just beat us up, they taught us things. You know, when we made mistakes yeah, we got, might have got a smoking for it Then they actually took the time to sit us down and teach us about it and the mistake and show us the mistakes we did. And, and I honestly believe my time spent with my very first unit is what set me up for success throughout my career and kind of showed me different styles of leadership. It set me on the path of leadership which, of course, I had to evolve and continue to change as as I grew up in rank, as well as the military itself has evolved.
Speaker 1:But I think that was the defining moment in my career was my first unit with the, with the leaders that I had above me, what they, what they taught me at the very beginning stages of my career, that is a nugget that I want to make sure that we kind of sit down for a second, because I think you and I have the same, different story, but essentially the same timeline is when I took over my platoon in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1:I met them at the memorial of one of the soldiers in my platoon and to me it was a deeply humbling experience and it set me on the path of leadership that I'm on now and the kind of the journey that I'm on now. But how you were able to turn a pain point of probably your entire cohort, you know, going over there and just being super poopy about everything, like, oh, here we go, here goes the army, but not you, you, you you started hunting the good stuff and then you looked how you could turn that horrible experience into an opportunity and then find an opportunity to go to the Lurse, which is a really awesome school, by the way. So I remember when I was graduating Ranger school, they were doing Rangers in action and they flew, you know, 60 overhead with a bunch of people like hanging down off a rope and I'm like what are those guys? And then it's, it's epic, it's such a cool school.
Speaker 2:How did you get it's um, you know, and what's funny is I'm still friends and stay in touch with my very first team leader from my first Lurse unit we still talk to today. He's, he's out, he's retired. He calls me up every once in a while just to you know he'll follow me. He follows me on social media and you know he'll call me up after watching a video or something and he's you know he'll be like I remember this and I remember that and you know, and it's amazing, and I always tell him, I always share that with him too. I'm like his name's cat His last name is Casper and I always share that with him. Like Casper, you don't realize the impact that you had on my career and on setting me up for success as as a soldier and as a leader, and of course he'll deny that, but he really did. He had such an impact on on my career and my leadership, I think, from the very get go.
Speaker 1:How did you change your mindset? Because I think that's one of the most important things.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I can't say for sure that you know, a light bulb came on. I realized as I progressed right, so as an E six, my leadership style was, was definitely way different, you know. And then you know you make E seven and you're not dealing with those soldiers on a daily basis. Right Now, you're dealing with squad leaders, right, so it's a little bit different. You know mentality and leadership style, dealing with your, your squad leaders and your team leaders, right, and understanding that. You know, hey, you have a responsibility to develop and mentor. You know two levels down.
Speaker 2:So you know, I couldn't be that that hard. I mean, there was times for it, but that wasn't the, that was not the norm, right, Because they're not really developing and learning if all I'm doing is is yelling and being hard on them. And then, of course, as you make E eight and then first on it changes again all the way up through Sergeant Major. So I think it was a little bit at each level, I started realizing that I had to kind of change and continue and I love how you use that sort of you know, that journey, my journey of leadership. I had to continue that journey and continue to grow it and continue to evolve it at each level, and I would say it was only maybe in the last five or six years.
Speaker 2:Well, actually, probably after after my time when I became a NCOA commandant and being on the ground every day with those hungry E fours getting ready to be leaders. I think that's when that light bulb came on about. You know, hey, I've I've got to learn to change my leadership, and it's going to be different with every soldier that I interact with, because every single soldier is different in so many ways their background, their, their morals, their values, how they were brought up, you know what their military career has been. There's so many different things with each soldier and you just you can't, you can't really be effective with just one style of leadership. And I think that's when the light bulb came on to me that I really had to change and evolve my type of leadership.
Speaker 1:So I'm going through a course right now resilient building leader program, or RBLP, and part of that one is called tacit knowledge, and tacit knowledge is knowledge that we have that's hard to kind of communicate, that you just have to talk through it. And yeah, I think you kind of defining growing through the ranks as a non commission officer. You know from private all the way up to our major and as you continue to learn, that you knew instinctually that you had to adapt to be a better leader at each one of those phases on your leadership journey. But it wasn't until you were put into a situation probably bringing you back into an earlier mindset of reflecting on how much you actually change kind of over the years. And I think to me that that's one area that I believe the Army can do better when it comes to helping shape leaders and if creating more deliberate times like actually think through things, then kind of an example that is you know, lieutenant Colonel, like before how it used to go is you go to you know the college for like two weeks and then you get out of that college program and then you basically would have a memorandum with your command philosophy that you spent probably two hours on and then that would govern the rest of that.
Speaker 1:Two years in the battalion command timeframe is that, I think, is probably a bad word to use, but we suck it really to sitting down and thinking about some of those key lessons learned because you have such a wealth of knowledge. But to me, just hearing you say that you didn't discover your spark for kind of leadership, of what made you successful, until you really sat there and you started to reflect on all those young soldiers around you, yeah, absolutely. So, kind of thinking it back on, the first time and I love always hearing this is when was the first time that you really viewed yourself as a leader? Because I know you are a lot like me very humble.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, pinning on E five, going from, you know, being a specialist, being in your junior soldier right, was a big event for me. Only because I had a squad leader and and my first one, who I would say we were, you know, pretty close to each other and both kind of took me under their wing. You know, here I am a brand new E five and I had a first sort who, I guess, just took a liking to me and really took me under his wing and put me in some situations to develop my leadership, right, right or wrong, you know he put me in some difficult situations and then, you know, if I didn't make the right decision or maybe didn't do things the best way, then both, you know, both of them would share their experiences with me and help develop me. So I first felt it, you know, as a young E five, but I don't really think I understood it to the point and understood the responsibility and the power that comes with leadership until I was an infantry instructor and being on the platform every day.
Speaker 2:You know one thing about infantry guys they're gonna, they're, they're gonna sharpshoot you if you don't know your stuff right 100%. So you know I had to be ready and in the Just being on a platform and then being in the field and training with these guys and teaching these guys on a daily basis, I realized how, how powerful and important leadership was. And and I think that's when I first realized you know what I'm in the beginning of Stages of being a leader, right, you know I've got this whole squad, or this whole, you know team of students that I'm teaching and instructing, that are, you know, getting up and going to bed on my every word, right, and you know learning things that's going to help them be come better infantrymen, a better warrior and a better leader in the future. And and that's, I think, when it really, when I really realized you know that I was, I was being a leader.
Speaker 1:So I would love to hear you know, 33 years, what was your most challenging job?
Speaker 2:My most and this doesn't happen very often my most challenging job was being put into a Position that was outside of my wheelhouse right, I've been infantry my entire career and we were deploying on over to Iraq and I I was asked to go with another unit that was not infantry as their sergeant major and I was excited, but I was Nervous and I was uncomfortable with it because all I knew was, you know, infantry soldiers, and it was very challenging because the leadership I had Was not very receptive to me coming in, because I was kind of like the outsider and it, you know I would.
Speaker 2:I had some struggles with it but you know, I learned a very valuable lesson and it's kind of sad that it took me that long you know, here I am already a sergeant major to realize that you know what, there's Great soldiers out there that aren't just infantrymen, you know, and I guess in my mind I knew that, but now I got to see it in person.
Speaker 2:So so being in that you know leadership position outside your normal comfort zone Was it was kind of a struggle for me at first but again, you know I learned to adapt to it. You know I, I just continued, you know, trying to be the example, learning as much as I could. You know it was a non-standard sec four type mission anyway. So the the foundation of what we were doing I was comfortable with. What I wasn't comfortable with was the style of leadership and the different types of soldiers that I was used to. Being around on a daily basis Was different and that probably honestly really helped me to realize that you know Army's way bigger than than just combat arms or just you know One.
Speaker 1:MOS. It's probably not as cool, but it's definitely bigger. Absolutely. That reminds me of you know where I?
Speaker 1:I made a career pivot two years ago, going from the infantry and acquisitions, and the first interaction of me taking over a civilian team and the civilian team was a 40 50 year old Men and women some have master's degrees and engineering that I can't even spell and I'm thinking to myself Very nervous is is how is this 35 year old major going to lead this group of civilians?
Speaker 1:And and thinking kind of having a Perception in my mind that almost an imposter syndrome, I guess in a way is that I don't have what it takes to lead them. But then, leading back on, okay, all the skills that I've acquired over my leadership journey and I think that's what I'm really hearing from you is where you've been able to be so resilient is that you have so many Tools in your toolkit. So when you do take over a leadership position, it doesn't mean that you're unprepared when you fill that level of anxiety. It just means that you're stretching yourself and you're having to lean into your rucksack and you're having to pull a toolkit out that you have but you didn't know you had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think honestly that's important, it's an important skill that that needs to be shared and taught to others, because it's just normal for us to get comfortable with what we do on a daily basis and, you know, in In comfortable even with our own leadership style. And then, you know, I've seen it in the past where people get put into a position where it's outside their comfort zone and unfortunately, a Lot will, will fail. Um, and you know not to beat up our organization, you know, but I do feel that we as an organization really have lost the, the ability to really develop and mentor junior leaders, you know, both on the enlisted, in officer side, and I got it, I understand. You know we went through 20 years of continued Combat. You know we were promoting Both officer and enlisted without PME, without experience, because you know, at the time we needed, you know, to fill positions at more senior Levels and I got it.
Speaker 2:But I think, you know, I think we lost that kind of maybe not lost the ability, but kind of lost the, the precision of what it takes Developing and mentoring, you know, junior leaders and and I think kind of now we're, we're playing catch up with that and it's unfortunate because I've seen a lot of good soldiers put into leadership positions that they were not ready for and maybe they didn't have, you know, maybe they didn't have a good battle buddy or a good mentor and unfortunately they ended up, you know, failing in those leadership positions. And I don't necessarily blame them, I think you know. I blame the organization and and also senior leaders. You know that we didn't do a better job.
Speaker 1:All right, team. Let's take a quick break from this podcast and I want to personally invite you to our private Facebook community that I call purposeful accountable leaders, or pals, and Pals is a community dedicated to inspiring and developing servant leaders by sharing Transformational stories and skills exactly what tells the leadership is all about. My goal is to build a community of like-minded Leaders that can share lessons, learn, ask questions and celebrate wins when it happens. And my mission in life is clear I will end toxic leadership by sharing Transformational stories and skills, and you will find countless Transformational leaders in this group. Many of them I have had the honor to serve with in the military. If you want to find a community that can help you grow Both personally and professionally, we would love to have you. You can simply search purposeful accountable leaders on Facebook or click the leadership Resources tab in the show notes to join. I am looking forward to seeing you guys and continuing to grow together on our leadership journey.
Speaker 1:Back to the podcast. That's one thing that it's always frustrated me to your point that I think I've been counseled. I've been in the military now for 16 years, if you count, you know when I was in the National Guard and listed. I have been counseled as an officer four times. It just blows my mind. And when I, when I was a company commander and I made it a point that, hey, everyone's gonna get a counseling, you're gonna get initial counseling and you're gonna get quarterly Counseling, and I owe it to you to do that, and we would create time in our day, I didn't care what we were doing, training was, we would have those Sessions. The counseling is just one tool, I think, think to do it other ways, like OPD is creating Non-professional workplace settings of maybe reading a book, and a great book that I would use from a platoon leader was Platoon leaders, was strength finder, like developing your strengths.
Speaker 1:But, hey, making you think what are your top five strengths and what do you believe that your platoons are? Junior squad leader top five strengths are, and where is that connection, where, where you've got finding synergy, or is that areas that are bringing you guys friction? But I would kind of love to hear and that was a question I was gonna ask you, you totally stole my thunder what was the biggest challenge kind of facing the army right now. But then how? How can we kind of fix that issue? And I think that's one of the challenges. That may not be the biggest challenge that you see, but how do you fix that mentoring issue?
Speaker 2:So I, you know again gonna use another cliche but we gotta get back to the basics of mentoring and developing. You know, I remember as a young private and specialist, you know, when we used to have sergeants time, how important that was. Not only was I learning my infantry skills right, it gave an opportunity for my leaders to develop me and teach leadership skills right. And we've got so busy with training. We went through years and years and years of 350-1 mandatory training right, and I honestly believe in it. And I'll I kind of argue this point with people because they don't see it, but I've been saying, man, we've been in combat for 20 years. We know how to train. Every time I go to the field, every time I see soldiers in the field, man, they know how to get out there and get after it and train right.
Speaker 2:So we spend so much emphasis on continued training right, all these different training events and venues. And again, training is important. But I think we need to start looking at areas that we can kind of maybe cut back on a little bit and focus more on ODP and NCODP. And you know, we've all got the books, we've all got the manuals right. You know, hey, it's a requirement. You do this and we do that, but a lot of times it ends up being, you know, just a check the box and we really don't spend the time that's needed in mentoring and developing junior leaders. And it shows in some of the leaders today and we really do. Got to get back to the basics on that. We got to make the time and spend the time.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was a rifle company commander, general Millie at the time I can't remember what position he felt came out with a memorandum of unburdening company commanders and it basically listed all these 350-1 trainings that no longer were applied. I don't know if you remember that I do. I was such a breath of fresh air because, as a commander you know if you're commander I'm getting ready to train to potentially send my soldiers at the time to Syria, and what I was being graded on was my 350-1 training. And for anyone out there, 350-1 training is basically online training anti-level one, terrorism and all of those things that truly don't matter. You have to get it done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. When that came out, man, it really was.
Speaker 1:It took so much weight off of my soldiers.
Speaker 1:As a company commander, the where I could get more time back with my organization and I think that's a universal trait, especially where I'm seeing now in the civilian realm and civilian organizations and industry is if you can spend time with your people. It kind of goes back to the rule of mirrors is that a leader spending time with their organization, whatever you do, whatever you say, is going to be replicated within that organization. And if you value things that do not align with building or mentoring or coaching people, well then that type of behavior is going to be replicated. And the theme you know that I've kind of heard so far with this podcast is that's kind of where the Army's went. We've been so busy being busy that we forgot about our people. And you know, one of the key tenants with the Army is people first and mission always, and that's one reason I absolutely love the Army and I don't want to get out they might have to kick me out one day is that I love the people and I love the mission.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm still here. I love what I do and I absolutely love the people.
Speaker 1:And that's that's one question I wanted to ask too. Is you know what drives you to keep serving in the Army?
Speaker 2:Really it's, it's the soldiers. You know, I, for me, I've kind of gotten to the pinnacle of my career. I mean, there is no E 10.
Speaker 1:It could be.
Speaker 2:We'll make it and you know I don't see Sergeant Major of the Army. You know, in my career path and I don't know that I would be good at that. You know when I, when I went up and met with Sergeant Major Grinston was it last year, I think it was last year and the amount of stress that he's under and all the dealing with all the DoD civilian employees and all the senior military leaders and all the politics that are involved in that position, I honestly, as honorable as it would be to be the SMA, I don't know that I would want it.
Speaker 1:You said a word that I've despised, but I'm learning more and more that I have to learn how to do. It is politics. The older I get in the Army, the more that is predominant and, depending on your success or not, I want to go back to the days of where my salt is measured on my performance and in my team's performance, not if someone likes likes me. It's frustrating.
Speaker 2:I absolutely hate the politics of the military. But you know I can see in some aspects the importance of it, you know, at certain levels. But I think we let it filter down sometimes too far in your right. Politics shouldn't play at all when it comes to performance or selection of people. Right, it ought to be based off of those soldiers' performance and not the politics or the good old boy system that you know goes along with that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree is that politics plays a role within strategic level decision making, because it should. That's part of it. But when you get down to the operational or the tactical level of putting a button to a seat, then that should not be part of it.
Speaker 2:It was a difficult road to navigate through and I didn't really notice it till I hit the Sergeant Major level how much politics was involved in things. And you know, learning to navigate through that was kind of tough and I'm just the type of person. I navigate just enough to be relevant, you know when I need to be and I leave it at that because I've just, you know, my mother's been telling me for the last 15 years you need to get into politics. I'm like no, thank you.
Speaker 1:You probably could, but just based on you know the following that you're building yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I was doing my last job before I switched over to uncrewed aircraft systems. I had to go do a speech to be a be out in Long Island, new York, and my industry partner at the time for one of the programs that we're working, and it was like hey, could you give kind of a speech to you know the people who have been working here during COVID? It would really be a bump to morale. And I'm like, yeah, absolutely, I'll totally do that. And afterwards he's like yeah, I invited everyone from our company is like what does that mean? It's like there's 300 people out. There is, like you said, five people, john, not 300 people. But afterwards, you know, I gave that speech. And then he's like you really have a career one day in politics, if you want to do it. Like no, no, john, I don't.
Speaker 1:I do not have a career politics. That's funny.
Speaker 2:So no, politics isn't for me. You know public speaking maybe you know being a, you know being being the comment on it, and so I got to do a lot of public speaking and I got comfortable with it, even though still to this day, you know, there's still a little bit of butterflies. But you know I went through that. Last year I got invited to speak at a at a veterans organization out in Idaho and it was actually through social media and super excited, you know, about doing it. And then when, when I finally nailed the guy down about the venue and you know exactly, you know where it was at and how many people, and he says, oh, we're only expecting about 2500 this year and I'm like, excuse me, I thought you said like 250, not 2500 people. So yeah, I had a few butterflies that day, but it was. It was a great experience and you know, getting to share kind of my career and my thoughts about veterans and it was mainly about veteran suicide and how we get after that. So I was real honored.
Speaker 1:I would love to kind of hear what was some of the main points with that, because, selfishly, I say that because one of the whole reasons I started this podcast was I looked at the epidemic and the military right now of our sons and daughters the greatest resource that our country has taking their lives for things that are completely preventable. And to me it comes down to poor leadership, and that's one reason that I started this whole journey is that if I can teach junior leaders at a young age what the right path of being a good leader looks like, maybe it could save a life or two down down the road. And that's the whole genesis of everything that I've done. You know, not to notoriety, none of that. I generally want to help soldiers and save lives, so that's an area that I'm passionate about.
Speaker 2:You know I shared my story of you know which I think a lot of people do, you know shared stories of my own demons that I fight with, but basically I bolded down to three things. I shared with them that you know you have to find your passion right. You have to have a passion. If you lose a passion, you know you're going to feel empty inside and it's going to lead you down a bad road. But I said you know three things that have helped me get through fighting my demons and dealing with my own depression and anxiety and issues, and it was very simple Faith. You know my faith in God and what he's brought me through my family.
Speaker 2:Without their support and I'm talking not only my wife, but you know, my children, my children. I got four children. They grew up with a dad who was gone all the time. If it wasn't for training, it was for deployments, right, you know, my son, at the age of eight, had to become the man of the house for many years because I was gone all the time. So, faith, family and friends and what I mean by friends is those brothers and sisters who have walked in the same path, in the same boots that we have. Those are the ones I can rely on, those are the ones that I can talk to and tell my stories and share my demons with, because they've been there and they understand. That's pretty much kind of what I shared with them. And then, you know, I just told them. I said, hey, you've got to find what you know. Those three things might not be work for you, but you've got to find what works for you to help you get through those dark days.
Speaker 1:I love that and there's so much connected to kind of with me personally. I developed a long term growth plan and I started doing this probably two years ago and three of those things that you just said is part of the seven areas that I want to grow in faith, family and fitness. Those are three of the seven, yeah, but I love how you talked about passion, and if you don't find something that you're passionate about doing, then darkness is going to creep in. And it's funny, in a way, too is when I started doing this podcast and getting more active on social media of how a lot of negativity would kind of invite itself in into your message, fees and like all these private messages and then you just have to kind of push through that.
Speaker 1:But the formula that I've had is a passion, finding your passion, something that you have a burning desire to do that gets your heart engaged. Finding your purpose, because we all have a God getting purpose, but we have to find what that is on this earth and then having perspective or a plan, being able to figure out how I can use my passion and my purpose to actually go and make change. I love everything you just said. I kind of want to get now into where you currently are on your leadership journey. I know you're working on your leadership bachelor's degree. I can't remember where it's from, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, try it. International and university out of California Bachelor's degree in strategic leadership with an understudy and interdisciplinary behavior, and I don't know how that got rolled into it, but I will tell you it's been interesting.
Speaker 1:So what made you one choose that degree?
Speaker 2:So, honestly, the reason I went with Trident University, the Sergeant Majors Academy finally became an accredited schoolhouse. That's amazing, yeah, that you and because of that you were able to, you know, with certain colleges submit your I forget what they even call it, but basically your military transcripts, right of all your career and what you've done, the J, something I used to know. That, yeah, yeah. So, you know, once I sat down with a, you know, with one of the advisors and looked at what classes I had already taken, what the military gave me and what I had left, it just made sense for me to you know it's and I should kind of share this on social media, like hey, it's never too late to pursue your degree. I said it's important to, especially in today's military.
Speaker 2:Back when I was in E6 and E7, civilian education was not as big a deal as it is today. Now, if you want to make first sergeant and sergeant major, you better get your civilian education taken care of. I've been working on this thing for almost 30 years. I started in Korea back in 1994, was when I took my first class. I've just been pecking away at it over all these years and I'm down to my final two classes.
Speaker 1:All right team. Let's take a quick break from the podcast episode. I want to share a leadership tool or resource with you, and that is resiliency-based leadership program. The RBLP's vision is to create a worldwide community of practice committed to building and leading resilient teams. There's three different types of certifications that they focus on, and that is frontline supervisors, middle managers or senior leaders. So why do we need to build and lead resilient teams?
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Speaker 1:Let's go back to the podcast. That is amazing and I'm glad we're able to kind of like tease that out. Over 30 years trying to work towards a bachelor's degree, but you never gave up and you had a successful career along the way, and I think that that is the truest definition of just grit, of being able to stick through it. And if you can do that, then anyone can do that. I truly believe that, because you probably have one of the most demanding jobs and you've had one of the most demanding jobs and I'm not gonna because I was in the National Guard.
Speaker 1:I was a non-commissioned officer, so I know the difference between kind of like an NCO kind of, and being an officer in active duty, and I'm just going to say that when I was a company commander, maybe my first sergeant worked a little bit harder than me. I was like I could cop back up. I'm not gonna say that you know 100%, but it could be possible. You could make an argument. So what drove you to start social media? And that's where I was able to find you, because you create such inspirational content, and I want to say genuinely thank you, because when I started doing that on social media, I did it because I wanted to bring light into the world. I'm just watching all this lack of a better work crap all the time and I wanted to be able to bring some type of light and help someone maybe going through some kind of dark place, and then I found you and you're bringing that light into the world.
Speaker 2:So I first started social media back in 2005, which, you know, I don't think Instagram was around, I don't think TikTok was around, some of the others, really it was.
Speaker 2:Facebook was the big thing back then and it had just really became a big platform. And the only reason I did it was because I was deployed and my oldest son and oldest daughter, who were only in their early teens at that time, had a Facebook. And you know, if I remember correctly, it was my daughter who said hey, dad, you need to get on Facebook so that you know, so that we can kind of communicate while you're deployed. And I'm like you know what? That's a great idea, and I think this was even before Facebook Live was out there. It was just being able to post pictures and things like that, right, or videos, and really that was my first taste of social media and it was strictly family. Right, I got to watch my kids play ball while I was deployed, I got to share some things, you know, while I was deployed, with my kids and that was a great experience. But then and that was pretty much my limit of social media for the longest time was just Facebook and it was pretty much just family and friends. And then, in 2020, when COVID hit and pretty much our country shut down, you know, we were all told to go home and tell the work and I was stuck at home with, you know, four grown kids Two of them were adults, young adults and I just remember, I remember seeing them in the living room or in the kitchen and they're all huddled around on their phones like they do and they're constantly chattering and sharing videos and laughing and I'm like what in the world are you guys doing?
Speaker 2:And they're like, oh, tiktok, tiktok. I'm like, what is that? Well, they explained to me what it was and I've always been one to be very protective parent when it came to social media. So I'm like, okay, my kids are on TikTok, I want to check this thing out. So I got on it and then I realized how addictive it was when I'm scrolling through TikTok at three in the morning. But I kind of felt like you did, sir. I saw a lot of cool stuff on there, I saw a lot of funny videos on there, but I saw a lot of just young soldiers with no direction, no drive and no motivation. And it reminded me of me and I'm like, you know, I kicked it around for probably a couple months before I really decided what I was gonna do or if I was gonna do anything.
Speaker 2:And I actually talked to my wife about it and she was like you know, that would be a good niche for you to run with. And I'm like you know what, I'm gonna try it. And I said you know what, I'm just gonna get on there and I'm gonna share some experiences, I'm gonna share some motivation. I said there's so much negativity and hate in this world and we have a lot of young soldiers that are looking for guidance, have questions or just need some positive you know, some positive encouragement.
Speaker 2:I said I think I can provide that and I started doing it. And you know it took off like a wildfire and you know I got labeled the Sergeant Major of TikTok and it just stuck with me. And you know I've run with it ever since then and it's been a crazy ride but it's really. It's been great to see the amount of soldiers that I've been able to talk to and impact that I've never even served with side by side right, we've never even crossed paths but so many that I get to talk to on a regular basis through social media.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you kind of reminded me of Matthew. You know chapter five, verse 14, as you were talking through that, you are a light in the world. Town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do the people light a lamp and put it under the bowl. Instead, they put it on the stand and they give the light to everyone in the house.
Speaker 1:So in that way and this is a theme that I've seen now through this is that you were able to adapt your leadership, starting as a private all the way to a Sergeant Major. But also that's the beauty about leadership You're a leader, you're a father, you're a husband, a leader of yourself, and you saw your kids being distracted by this disruptive technology and then you really started digging into it and then you saw hey, you know, there's soldiers that are just on here, have no clear direction or purpose. I could be that direction or purpose, I could be that light on that hill, and you just adapted your leadership style again. It's funny and that's why I love podcasting, because I can kind of sit back from an aerial perspective and walk through a leadership's journey, a leader's journey, and I love how that's the theme that you are a resilient leader and it just continues to manifest itself regardless of the technology or the method. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I tell you and you know this, I'm sure, being on social media, you know there's going to be people that attack you and send you, you know, leave, nasty comments and all that. And I struggled with it at first. And again I'm gonna go back to my rock, to my wife, who has been there. You know we were married before I came into service, so she's been with me through the whole thing right 34 years, but she was the one that she just sat me down one day because I was getting all spun up about some comments that were left about me or this or that, and she's like why are you even letting these people bother you?
Speaker 2:She's like they don't know you, they don't know your career, they don't know what you've done, they don't know what you've been through and you're letting them distract you from what you're trying to do. And I was like it was like a brick hit me in the face. I'm like man, you are so right and every sense that I've kind of just washed my hands of it, you know, and I just I don't let it affect me, I just try to move on from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was the hardest thing for me until my wife, kind of my rock, walked me through that too. She's like why are you listening to people who have the hate and negativity? You're trying to make a difference and I kind of go back to you know a leader, it's not a popularity contest. It doesn't matter the decisions that you make. There's going to be people in your organization that love you, that are he's okay, and then I absolutely hate that guy and it doesn't matter. There's always going to be like that, and social media is the same way. There's going to be people out there that just are genuinely unhappy and they're going to try to bring you down. So walk me through, because I want to be respectful of your time and try to finish it at the hour mark. But I know that you have a really interesting operations boot crew that you've kind of created, and if you could maybe walk through that, what is that and how can people support it?
Speaker 2:So it's a nonprofit that my wife and I started and you know I can remember the many times being deployed that my wife and kids and family, you know, and my kids grew up in a private school, so a lot of times the school would get involved in collecting things and then they would send over care packages. And you know, I know you've been there, you've received care packages and it don't matter if you're a private or you're a sergeant major, receiving a care package from home when you're deployed makes a difference Best day ever. And so I met up with one of the guys off of social media, off of TikTok, starting first class Smash, oh, huh, oh, and I think is this is his name on tick tock. I'm sure you've seen him. He's pretty big, he's got a little over, I think, a million followers, but Anyway they were getting ready to deploy. We mean him had talked a couple of times Through messages and things like that and him and his platoon were getting ready to deploy.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, hey, man, I said I love me, my wife would love to support you guys where you're deployed. I said if you get me your you know APO address, I said, hey, we'll try to send you over some stuff. I said send me a list of you know what you, what you're, you and your guys can't get while you're over there, because I know, depending on when you go, sometimes you can't get stuff and sometimes there's just certain stuff that you want, right. So we started supporting them during during their deployment. We were sent over, you know Probably 10 to 12 huge boxes, you know, every couple weeks and it just, I guess, word got out and people started, you know, hitting me up about it.
Speaker 1:You know hey.
Speaker 2:I'm deployed would love to get a care package. And I was like, okay, great. And so me and my wife just started doing it and it grew really fast, really big, and my wife's like we, we can't keep this up. And plus, people started donating. So I had just mentioned it one time on a video, that that you know we were doing a big shipment and hey, if anybody would like to jump in on this and help help out to send some stuff to some Soldiers, let me know. And immediately I started getting messages of people that wanted to donate money. So I think it was like within a 14th, 14 month period, we got over $25,000 in donations. Wow, all towards operation boot crew. That's that's just what we ended up calling it. And and so we filed, you know, for 501c3 and made it a nonprofit and we've just kind of been trying to build it.
Speaker 2:And still, you know, I know we've kind of pulled out of Afghanistan, but we still have, you know, soldiers in Syria. We got soldiers in Iraq, you know Poland. So you know, yeah, we just we, we try to link up, you know, and I usually I'll see a video of somebody who's deployed and I'll just reach out to them Like hey, you know I love the operation brute crew would love to send you a care package. Send me your APO address and you know we'll get something out to you. And so we just been doing that. Matter of fact, I'm working with a Private school right now who's doing a big collection to help us out and we're gonna send that out.
Speaker 2:We just did a one for Girl scout cookies. So Young girl was she had mentioned to my wife that she had a goal. She was selling girl scout cookies. She's like I have a goal to sell a hundred boxes strictly for deployed soldiers. And I said you know what we can help each other. Yeah, I said I'll buy a hundred boxes from you right now and we'll ship them to deployed soldiers. So it's, it's really been an honor to be a part of that and into Uh and to do that and it's really taken off good and uh. I've had a lot of great support from people all over the country, people who don't even know me, but they they're willing to help out.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Yeah, that's absolutely amazing. And what's the best way to kind of Find that and add and add value to you?
Speaker 2:so, uh, I have a Facebook page for operation boot crew and I also have an instagram page for operation boot crew, um, and then in it it kind of talks about facebook has our mission statement and and ways that you can donate towards it. Um, I just recently did a and I had to have somebody help me with it Uh, I guess an amazon wishlist, um, and I and I put that on my link tree for both my instagram and tiktok bios Um, where people can go in and just purchase, you know, things based off of this list, uh, to help, and then it it ships to us and and then we ship it out with our shipments.
Speaker 1:Wow. So last question before we get to the final show segment and and I have so many questions that I wasn't able to get to, and it always happens, um, but that's okay. But what advice would you give to a new soldier that that's just starting out in the military?
Speaker 2:Today, a new soldier coming in today's army. The advice I would give them is go all the way through your first contract before you give up on the army. Right, and because I think a lot, a lot of soldiers I was fortunate, you know my first duty, station and contract. As much as I modulated it then, I realized now the importance of it and what it taught me and and, and I think soldiers just give up too early, right, they they run into some, some challenges or some obstacles or, yeah, maybe they've run into some bad leadership.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to deny that it's out there. But what I will say, and I stand firmly on is there are way More good leaders than there are bad leaders. There are way more good stories than there are bad stories. Just with today's social media, it's so easy, uh, for the negative and the bad Uh press to get out there quickly and people jump all over and it just runs rampant, um, and there's just not enough of us telling the good news stories and highlighting the great leaders, uh, that are out there. So I would encourage young soldiers coming in today hey, don't give up so easily. Work through the challenges, work through the obstacles. I promise you it gets better as you stick it out and you keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing advice. It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same four questions that I ask every guest on the tales of leadership podcast Be brief, be brilliant, be present and be gone. Question one so what do you believe separates a good leader from an extraordinary leader?
Speaker 2:Wow, that's a great question, sir. Honestly, I think it's. It's A really simple equation how much are they willing to go the distance to For their soldiers and their team, right? Um, you know, there's a lot of great leaders that will do a lot of great things, but they get to a point where that's that's all they do. Right, they'll take you to a certain level. I think what makes you an exceptional leader is when you realize that you've taken them to to a certain point and you figure out a way to take them even further and help them even further.
Speaker 1:Mmm, that's a. That's a great nugget. All right. Second question what is one resource that you can recommend to our listeners?
Speaker 2:a resource so All right. So I'll give you two real quick one, uh, and this really could apply to anybody, right? It doesn't necessarily have to be Military. If you don't have yourself a good mentor, get you one right, they're out there, find one. Make it a point to find that person that will help develop and mentor you right. Number one. Number two Read the book by retired colonel McKnight that he wrote. I had that, I had the title of it. It's his book about Mogadishu and his experience there. But it's not just a book that talks about what happened there. It talk. It talks about the leadership that went on during that operation and the politics that were involved in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was an eye-opening book for me, um, and, and what made it even more incredible to read it was I got to meet him personally and he signed my book. So it's a great book. Not very long probably, and I don't remember how many pages in it, but, uh, you know it's, it's not. It's a paper book about that thick, easy to read and once you get into it it's great. But it has a lot of great leadership stuff in there.
Speaker 1:So question three. So if you could go back in time to give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Don't be so harsh and be more flexible. And I guess the harsh reason is because maybe I grew up in that era where that's all I really knew it In my early stages. But I don't think it, I don't think it was necessary all the time right and be more flexible and empathetic to soldiers, which I think is very critical for an effective leader today. Right, we've all been there, whether it been, you know, through the hard times of training or living in the barracks or whatever it might be. But if you're going to be an effective leader, you've got to be able to have empathy.
Speaker 2:And and what I share with young soldiers Is what that means to me is yeah, I can, I can look on your, I can look on your ocp jacket, sir, and see your last name, right? So I know your name, macmillan, right? I'm talking about understanding soldiers and knowing more than just their name, right? No one, their family, no one there. You know you don't have to send birthday cards and Christmas cards and presents to the kids, but the more you know about your soldier and their families will help you be more empathetic when they bring you their problems. And if and if you can't be empathetic to it, they're never going to bring you your problems 100%.
Speaker 1:That's that's beautifully said 100%. So this is probably the easiest question I've ever asked anyone, because you're probably going to be the easiest one to find but how can our listeners find you and how can they add value to you?
Speaker 2:So uh, I'm on global, not that that really matters. I'm all over social media. I do have a Facebook under my name, lawrence Lawrence M Ogle, or Lawrence Ogle. I typically keep most of my my facebook to Family and you know close friends that I that I talked to a lot. But I'm on Instagram. I'm on TikTok. I started a YouTube channel not too long ago.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to build that platform as well and and really the value I get from people is the I I can't tell you how how much just a simple comment or sharing Something maybe that I said or did, sharing your personal experience of how that impacted you with me, whether it's through a comment or through a message, really adds value to me because I would tell you, even even a senior leaders man, we get, we get beat down. Sometimes we get tired, we get to the point, sometimes we want to. Just you know, give it up, quit, take, take the easy road. And, uh, just you know, the comments and and the DM saying hey, sir, major, open up, hope you're having a great day adds encouragement and value to me to keep going and keep moving forward and pressing the mark. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Sorry, major, this has been a little bit over an hour, but definitely well worth it. Thank you so much for being intentional and being a guest on tells, the leadership podcast. Sir, thank you so much. I am absolutely honored to have been a part of this and and.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you so much and what you bring Um. I love your tales of leadership and what you're doing on the on social media platforms, so I appreciate you, sir. Thank you so much. Yeah, have a great night, all right team.
Speaker 1:That was our episode with sergeant major ogle, a phenomenal episode. It was very long, but it was definitely well worth the hour and eight minutes that we recorded. And then I'm honestly could have continued going from. I'm honestly could have continued going further, and that's great to be a podcaster because I can pull someone like sergeant major ogle, who has almost a million following on social media, and just Elisa, and tease out of him his leadership stories, all to add value to you guys, so you can learn I can learn to be a better leader. So what are the top three takeaways? It's time for our after action review.
Speaker 1:The first one that I got was evolve your leadership, and that's the beauty about all of this over 70 some podcasts filmed. Now there's the continuous themes in leadership that I'm starting to see, and one of them is evolving your leadership. You have to be able to adapt your leadership. How you communicate, how you write, how you Interact with people throughout your leadership journey, how you have led people when you first start out, is going to be totally different of how you're leading people now. And and just reflect on that. Think about that if you're listening to this podcast. If you made it this far in first, thank you, but to think about how your leadership has evolved over the years, the second key takeaway that I got was something that he was talking about that I, I genuinely believe of. You know, soldiers committing suicide or even, in the civilian world, depression, all of that passion it all stems from them not having a passion in their life. You need to find your passion Because, again, the first phase of leadership is self leadership and you can't lead other people well unless your whole your self. So find your passion, and I shared the 3p rule that I've shared throughout this podcast and I'll probably continue to share it. But what is your passion? Find it, the fuel source, the energy to continue to move, plus your purpose, your god-given reason while you're on this earth, plus perspective, having a clear plan and executing it. So passion Plus your purpose plus perspective Equals a fulfilled life, and you have to find it and it's not going to just come to you magically and fall within your lap. You have to go out and find it.
Speaker 1:And the last one that I had was just something that he said that stuck with me is that leaders get people to achieve results. They get them to a point. But what separates a great leader, from an extraordinary leader, is taking people to that point and then be able to move beyond that point. And it just reminded me of Ranger school. And it's funny because I have all these ranger stories and if you're listening to this and you've been through ranger school, you, you understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:But I vividly remember being a Platoon leader and thinking, man, I am just Not mentally in it, I'm so tired, I'm so sleep deprived and everyone else is so tired and so sleep deprived. But I had to get them beyond that point and I had to push them Beyond what they thought their limits were. And the same is true, you know, with deployments, that that I've had. That's what great leaders do. And I'm not saying I'm a great leader and I know that I have a lot to learn. But leaders, extraordinary leaders, are able to move their people that a little bit of extra beyond, to the point that they think they can't go past. Hey guys, do me a favor if you like this episode, make sure that you share, you rate and you subscribe to this podcast. Out of all three of those, it would mean the world to me if you shared this podcast with someone just starting out on their leadership journey. I'm your host, josh mcmillian, saying every day is a gift. Don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.