#7 Oakland McCulloch - Retired LTC & Author of Your Leadership Legacy With Over 40 Years of Leadership Experience

Retired Lieutenant Colonel Oakland McCulloch is the author of the 2021 release, Your Leadership Legacy: Becoming the Leader You Were Meant to Be. Based on 40+ years of leadership in the U.S. Army and subsequent civilian positions, Oak highlights principles that will benefit today’s leaders and inspire the leaders of tomorrow. Oak is a well-known speaker who gives presentations on various topics, including leadership, success, military history, college preparation, and others.

👉🏽How to Contact Him:

-Website:  https://www.ltcoakmcculloch.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oakland-mcculloch-34293256/

🫡 My Why: I’ve seen the cost of poor leadership — how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in the worst cases, lead to lives lost, including through suicide. That’s why I’ve committed my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actionable insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons.

👉🏽Leadership Resources: https://linktr.ee/talesofleadership

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- Joshua K. McMillion

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

You're listening to the Tell the Leadership Podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader, what I like to call how. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership. Welcome to Tells the Leadership. I'm your host, Josh McMillian, CEO of McMillian Leadership Coaching, an active duty service member with over 15 years of leadership experience and on a mission to create more purposeful, accountable leaders. My mission is to help leaders achieve their full potential and allow leaders to multiply value throughout their organization and personal lives. My vision is to positively affect 1 million lives in the next 10 years, regardless of position or title. Well, in today's episode, we are going to be interviewing Lieutenant Colonel retired Oakland McCulloch. He has over 40 years of leadership experience, a published author, recently writing your leadership legacy, becoming the leader you were meant to be, and a public speaker. This episode is a phenomenal resource, especially for individuals who are just starting out as leaders. And make sure you listen all the way to the end because I wrap up what I believe the three key takeaways are from this episode. Let's get started. All right, sir. Well, thank you for being our very first guest on Tales of Leadership podcast. I think a good place to start is just opening up of who you are.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Okay. Well, thanks for having me on your show, Joshua. I really appreciate it. Um, so I'm retired Lieutenant Colonel McCullough. I retired from the Army in 2009 with 23 years uh on active duty. Had leadership experience some way or another over 40 years. I was always the captain of my sports teams or president of my student council or class president. And then uh through my two years at West Point, my two years in ROTC, I had some leadership positions and then 23 years in the army. When I retired from the Army, I was the associate director of a food bank. Don't get much different than that, for about 18 months, running the day-to-day operations of a food bank. And now I do the recruiting for the Army ROTC program here in Ebonory Riddle. And I'm also a Department of the Army civilian. So uh still doing something related to the Army and in leadership and wrote a book, and now I I go around talk to people um about leadership. So that's really my passion at this point in my life.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

That's awesome, sir. I think you and I share a very similar, similar background of being in leadership, of starting off in sports and then being in roles in JRTC. And I see myself probably, you know, definitely 10 to 15 years behind you. But thank you for your service to the country. I know 23 years is that's a long commitment. And thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah, well, I I tell people I loved every minute of my time in the army, and I really did. Uh and and you know, it really is easy. I I tell people all the time the jump from being an athlete to being an officer in the army is pretty easy because we're asking for the same things. We're asking for dedication, for discipline, some, you know, being in shape. Those those are all kinds of things that we're asking for. And and then if you're we're lucky enough that you're the captain of a team or or a leader on a team, then that's even better. But easy jump from being an uh an athlete to being an officer in in the army.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

No, I love that, sir. So kind of you having so much experience with leadership, I would love to hear how do you define leadership in your terms?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, so I'm a firm believer in servant leadership. Um, and people always say, Well, you were in the army. How could how could you believe in servant leadership? It that's all authoritarian. I said, No, I said, believe me, we we've all had the authoritarian leader, and it's horrible. But I the best leaders I've had in the army were servant leaders. They understood that it wasn't about them, it was about the people that worked for them, and it was about the organization. They had the privilege, and it is a privilege, to lead. Um, and so I I kind of I was lucky enough as a lieutenant to have one of those as my first battalion commander and my first company commander. And um, and so it just kind of set me on the path. That's what I believed in. And so I really do. I I tell people all the time when it's a you know, chapter two of my book, and when I go around talking to people um on leadership, I the first one of the first things I talk about is it's not about you and it's all about you. So it's not about you and what in the title you get or the privileges you get or the more pay you get. Let's face it, those usually come with being a leader, and that's great. But if that's why you want to be the leader, then I'm telling you, go do something else because that's not not why you should want to be the leader. And it's all about you and how you treat the people in your organization and how you lead your organization. Because it isn't about you. As we when I when we commission all these brand new lieutenants out of this ROTC program, and when I ran an Army ROTC program, my last assignment, and we commissioned people, I always tell them, look, today, celebrate today. It's all about you. You're getting commissioned. But when we pin those bars on you, tomorrow morning when you wake up, it will never be about you ever again. It's about your people, it's about the mission, it's about the organization, it's about the army, it's about the country. And then if we have time, we might talk about you, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Yeah, that's so powerful, sir. The the one thing that I didn't learn, and I really didn't learn this until I got out of ranger school. So when when you make that transition from your performances based on your individual results, and then when you actually make the jump and take over a formation or start leading people, there's that distinguishing factor of where you have to understand that the position you're holding is just a position, temporary authority. And that authority only goes so far until you actually create commitment from your team and buy in. I absolutely love that. And one of the things that I wrote down from that is being able to shine a spotlight, reflecting the light from you onto others and being able to show that to your team.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

You know, I I tell people all the time, I said, look, you know, that and I I believe this 100%, that you have to give credit where credit is due. And and if you think you're gonna get your organization to where you want to be by yourself, you're sadly mistaken. It's gonna be the people that work for you. And I always tell people, look, if throughout my career, if we if my organization, my platoon, my company, whatever, accomplished what it was we were supposed to accomplish, then I went to the boss and I said, Hey, boss, look what look what our guys did. And oh, yeah, by the way, John, Jane, and Joe did a great job.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

If we didn't do what we were supposed to do, then I went to the boss and said, Hey, boss, I messed up. Because even if it wasn't me who who prevented us from doing what we were supposed to do, I'm the leader. I'm responsible for everything that does or does not happen in my organization. So I take the responsibility and I say, hey, boss, I screwed up, but here's how we're gonna fix it. And then let's go fix it. And and that's my philosophy as a leader is I don't care if you made a mistake today. We all make mistakes. There's there's nobody perfect in this world. I keep trying to convince my wife that I'm not buying it. No, we're all gonna make mistakes. I don't care if you made a mistake. What I care about is what did you do after you made the mistake? Did you try to hide it? Did you blame somebody else? Or do you come up to me and say, hey boss, I messed up. Here's how we're gonna fix it. Let's go fix it.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yeah, I think that's so empowerful too, because it goes back to your character or your reputation. And if you don't take ownership for your individual react actions, it begins to erode not just your reputation, but also the position that you hold.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

That's right. Because it's all about trust. Yeah. Leadership is about people. Plain, simple. It isn't about organizations, it's not about charts, it's not about it is about people. And the people that you lead, especially in our profession that we were in, that I was in, that you're in, it is all about trust. But I I still argue that leadership is leadership. I don't care what profession you're in, I don't care what profession you learned it in or practiced it in, leadership is leadership. And if you can get people to trust you, then they will do anything you ask them to do. The minute they don't trust you, the game's over. Yep. You're no longer the leader. You may have the title of being the leader, but you're not the leader anymore. You know, and one of my favorite quotes, Vince Lombardi said, a team is not a group of people who play together, a team is a group of people who trust each other.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

And that is so true. And especially for leaders, you gotta earn the trust of the people that work for you.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

So to on that point, sir, what do you think separates a leader from not being able to build trust and a leader that can build trust with their organization?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, so I think I think it really comes down to what how you interact with the people that that fall under you. Now, you've got to keep it lost worker relation. I got it. You know, can't that that line can't be crossed. But this is the advice I give every young leader. And I got a little card, you know, it's got 10 things, and when this is on them, it's one of the first things on it. I tell every young leader every day, go find one person in your organization. I don't care who it is, find one person every day and go find out something new about them. Not about work, about their personal life. Find out their spouse's uh name. Are they married? If they are, what's the husband or wife's name, the kids' names? What sports do the kids play in? What hobbies does the person that works for you have? What's their likes, their dislikes? Go find out one thing new every day about somebody in your organization, and you'll you'll be absolutely amazed. Every time you do that, that trust is just growing and growing and growing. And I learned that as a captain. And you know, I wish, like you were saying, you know, I wish I would have learned that earlier. But here's how it happened: I was at the National Training Center and I was working for a man I have a whole lot of respect for who retired a three-star general. But at the time he was a he was a lieutenant colonel and I was a captain, and I was we were OCs two or three days a week. I'd pass him in the hallway going into my office, and he was out there walking around. And he was one of those guys, he'd walk up and say, Hey, Oak, how are you doing today? And the first couple of times he tried he said that, I tried to walk by, I said, Fine, and I tried to walk by him. And he said, No, no, whoa, wait, stop. How are you? And he really wanted to know. He really did want to know how I was. And he and when I tell him how I was doing and some things that were going on, he'd say, How's Kel doing? How's your wife doing? Didn't the kids have a soccer game this weekend? How'd they do? And I started thinking I was pretty special until one day I suck my head out the door. And guess what? He was doing the same thing for another captain. That's when it kind of hit me that that just how powerful that is. I mean, that was back in 1995. Yeah, and I remember it like it was yesterday. That's how powerful it is, and that's building that trust. Uh, and that's how it starts, getting to know the people that work for you.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

That's a great example, sir. And one point two, just for the listeners, I want to make sure they understand what OCT is. So, an observer, coach, trainer, and they're usually at um large training sites, either NTC, the National Training Center, um, or where I was at, too, sir, um Joint Readiness Training Center for two years.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, that what a great job. I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, that was a phenomenal job for me because it allowed me to, before I took over my company command positions, I was able to shadow company commanders over 18 different rotations, and I got to see the good, the bad, and the ugly, most important the ugly, and then learn from those experiences. It was powerful.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

I usually tell people, you know, you're out there and you're supposed to be training and teaching these captains, these company commanders, and you do, and and I think I did, but nobody tells you this, but you're gonna learn just as much as you're teaching. Yeah. And and if you're not, then you're messing up, uh, then you're not doing it right because again, I don't care how long you've been doing this, you can always learn something new.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah, absolutely, sir. I love I love that. You always have to stay curious and committed.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

So, you kind of for you starting off, what drove you to being a servant leader in the military and what in your informative years, what were some of the biggest challenges that you had to overcome?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah, so you know, I had a boss, again, I I was lucky, I had a couple mentors who decided to take take interest in me, and this one retired a four-star general, actually. And uh and he and he told me one day, he said, Oak leadership is a scale. He said, on this end, you got the micromanaging authoritarian, do as I tell you, not and I don't want you to do anything other than what I tell you. And those people are horrible to work for, you hate going to work every day, and I think we've all worked for somebody like that. And then on the other end of the scale, you got Attila the Hun and Chaos. And he said, Oak, you want to be as close to chaos as you can get. And the way you get there, and the reason you want to be that close to chaos is because that's where creativity happens. People are using their own ideas, they're using their own knowledge, their own ability. Um, and it's not just what you're telling them to do. And the way you get as close to chaos as you can get is that you first of all you have to train the people so you trust that they're going to be able to do what you ask them to do. You give them a mission, a task, a job, you give them the resources that they need people, money, time, equipment, whatever. And then you give them the authority to do what it is they need to do to get it done. You can give away all the authority you want. You can never give away responsibility. You are responsible for everything that does or does not happen in your organization. But you can give away the authority for that project as much as you want, and you should, because again, that's what allows them, that's what allows creativity to happen. And and they will absolutely amaze you at what they can do. Will they do it the way you did you wanted to do it or you would have done it? Absolutely not. But who cares? As long as they give you what you asked for, who cares how they did it?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Absolutely, sir. And I had a boss tell me that too, and it was actually it um serving at Jero TC talking about mission command. So I didn't really understand what that was, especially when I was a platoon leader. I was much more on the on the micromanager side. But when I got ready to and I took over the company command position, the authority increased, the level and responsibility increased, and it's just physically impossible to do that and build trust at the same time. And he he explained it to me. He's like, Josh, you have to be able to delegate to the point where you feel uncomfortable. And then when you feel uncomfortable, that is when you know that you have enabled mission command in your formation. And for me, it was like a light bulb.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yep, absolutely. That is exactly it. I mean, and and again, you got to train the people, you got to believe that they can do what you ask them to do, and then you just got to get out of their way, give them the stuff they need to do what you're asking them, and then get out of their way and let them do it.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah, I wrote that down, sir. So trust, task, train, mission, command. I love that. Um, okay, so as you started on your leadership journey, where was the spark? Where did you realize that you loved leadership? Love leading other people.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

So, so I get asked the question all the time is I'm sure you do too, are leaders born or are they made? And I think it's a combination. Um and I'll tell you why I think it's a combination. You I don't know if you have any kids. I had uh, you know, I have two kids, 33, 31 now, but they were when they were younger, they'd play soccer. When they were five, six, seven, eight years old, they were playing soccer and baseball and whatever. And you'd walk out and hear this five, six-year-old team full of five and six-year-olds, there's a leader on that team. Nobody made that person the leader, but all those kids are following that one person because they're a natural-born leader, and there are people like that. Having said that, I think that there are people that aren't natural-born leaders, they may have some tendencies to be a leader, but you can develop leadership in them, and we do, and that's what we do an excellent job of that in the military, not just in the army, but in the military. And so I think there's a combination. I knew very young that for whatever reason, people followed me on the sports field. Yeah, literally, uh, fourth, fifth, sixth grade basketball. I was the captain, whether I was selected to be the captain or not. People always came to me. And I and I kind of figured out that that's kind of what I wanted to do. About sophomore year, I decided I wanted to be a leader in the army, not just a leader, but a leader in the army. And I started working toward that. And and it it just it just really clicked. And again, I think part of that is because I think I had some a little bit of natural-born leadership. My father, who was a mean old man, but who turned me into the person I am today by by making sure I had those leadership skills that he taught me. And then then I just I think being being an athlete, learning those things as an athlete, um, the self-discipline, uh teamwork, all that stuff helped me develop into the leader I am. And I will tell you, the the I the person I give credit to, besides my father, for making me the leader I am, is probably Sergeant First Class Pence, my platoon sergeant, my first platoon sergeant. What what a great leader he was. I, you know, people say, well, you know, your platoon sergeant works for you, and he does. I got that, but I will tell you, he was as good a leader as I was, and he taught me a lot of things and really emphasized the the servant leader part of it, not to be a micromanager. And and I give him a lot of credit for that.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

So there's two things, sir, that resonated with me on that. Is is I really truly think that we have that same similar path of when I was in grade school, or are leaders born or or are they made like naturally? John Maxwell has a great, I guess, kind of joke is like leaders are born, like everyone's born, right? But like we're not natural leaders, we're usually learned through experience, but it's it's when we step up in those big moments. That's right. And when I was in sports similar to you, I was always in those leadership positions, but it never dawned on me why. And I think really it comes to a level of maturity. I think that we get selected for those positions, especially early on, and I really reflected on that why. And I think I was I was more mature than my peers at that time, and people saw in me something that they just didn't see in other people, and I didn't realize that till much later on in my in my career, but that instilled the confidence that I needed to continue to drive forward, and I I I love that, sir.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

So I'll I'll tell you what what uh kind of did, and I agree with you 100%, and what kind of made me grow up and maybe mature a little bit faster than the rest of my uh peers. Again, go back to my father, and and my father never ever ever told me I couldn't do something. He said, There's consequences for everything you do. So make sure you it's worth the consequence that you're gonna get. And he said, Here's how I can tell you to make your life a little bit easier. He said, Because life is all about decisions and consequences. Every decision has a consequence, either good or bad. But every decision you make has a consequence. So here's how to get to the point where you're making good decisions that give you good consequences. Because until you get there, life can be tough. And he said, This is the way, the advice I'm gonna give you, young man. And if you do this, I promise you, very seldom will you make a bad choice. And he said, Every time you're gonna decide to do something, every time you're at that point where you're making a decision, can I should I do this or not? Think to yourself, would you want your mom to know that you're about to do what you're gonna do? And if the answer is yes, then go ahead and do it. If the answer is no, then you probably need to rethink what you're about to do. And I tell you, that helped me grow up very quickly as a young man.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I love that. So there's always that expression is that leaders do the right thing regardless of who is watching. And funny enough, my my dad brought this up when I was learning how to drive a car, and I never put my seatbelt on. And but he used uh my grandmother as a reference. What would your grandmother say if she knew you weren't wearing a seatbelt? And I was like, oh, that's a good point, dad. And it just stuck with me, and then hearing that story from you. Let's take a quick break from this episode. I want to personally invite you to my private Facebook group that I built called Purposeful Accountable Leaders. Let me ask you some questions. Do you want to become the leader your team deserves? Do you feel overwhelmed or unsure of your leadership abilities? And are you leading in a middle fall? If you are a leader at any level, join our purposeful accountable leaders community. My mission is to create a community that allows leaders to ask questions, celebrate wins, and share lessons learned. The link for the group will be in the show notes. Finally, if you like what you're hearing so far, leave a comment, leave a review, and make sure you subscribe and share this podcast with someone who's just starting off on their leadership journey. Thank you. Back to the podcast. So we're going to transition now to the the middle part of where are you currently on your leadership journey?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah so at this point again you know I I've been doing leadership stuff for about 40 years. Now does that mean that I can't learn new stuff? Absolutely not. I tell people if you if you think you can't learn anymore as a leader, then stop being a leader because you're not helping anybody anymore because we can all can. And and what really drove that home to me was when I wrote my book and I'm going out on the speaking engagements, but when I wrote my book, I really wrote it for two groups of people. I wrote it for young men and women just starting out either aspiring to be a leader high school college students or actual leaders on you know young leaders on a sports team or student government or um or just starting out as a junior leader in a company to kind of explain to them why servant leadership is important and what you have to do to be a good leader. Because you know as I first started going around talking to young men and women I'd ask them I said what do you want to do in life? And they said well I want to do this profession and I want to be a leader. And I said great world needs more leaders what does that look like? What does it take to be a good leader? And you get that deer in the headlights look you know they had no idea what it took to be a leader. So I I wrote it for them, but I also wrote it for old people like me. And I've been validated a couple times in that I've had people who have been leaders like me 25, 30, 40 years who said, oh you know, I didn't learn a whole lot of new things. I might have learned a new technique here or there reading your book. But what I really got out of it was I was reading along and I saw something that you put in there and I thought to myself you know what I used to do that really well. And I don't do that so well anymore. Maybe I need to dedicate some time to get back to doing that so that I am a better leader than I am today. And we all fall into that. I don't care how long you've been a leader, you know, you forget some of the things that made you successful. Yeah. And you got to get back to doing those things. And so at this point in my life my passion really is to get out and talk to as many people as I can about leadership because I think it is so important. I had a I had a another guy Master Sergeant David Powell uh who worked for me when I was in ROTC and I say work for me. Again he was probably it wasn't probably he he was a better leader than I am. And one day we were sitting there talking about what we were doing the importance of of providing or producing brand new lieutenants for the army and the country and he said to me you know what boss great leadership handed down from generation to generation is what develops great nations. And I thought to myself I wish I could take credit for that quote because what a great quote I thought to myself wow what a great quote and the great part of that quote is that you can take that word nations and you can substitute anything you want for that business, university, hospital, sports team doesn't matter. It doesn't change the meaning of that quote one single bit. Leadership is leadership and great leadership handed down from generation to generation develops great organizations.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Absolutely and there was one thing in there that you said that really kind of resonated with me is you never forget where you came from especially as you grow as a leader and you continue to gain more authority and more position, more rank, more title a lot of times what what I have seen and I know you've seen it too with what I like to call you know transitional leaders transitional leaders versus transformational leaders as they progress up to the rank I I see almost in a way a hardening of their heart of where they forget to build those authentic relationships and they forget to build that trust and as they go up higher that they just completely lose that.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

And the the the problem is this you you can't fake it the people who are working for you will know whether or not you care about them or not. There is no faking it I promise you they know exactly whether or not you care and and if they don't if you don't then the trust starts to erode.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

So speaking of your book sir I want to bring that up and I want to make sure we highlight that so the title of your book is Your Leadership Legacy Becoming the Leader uh you were meant to be so that is correct yeah where where can people find that book?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah so um I have a website um www.ltcoakmaculah and uh and on there it has a book sales uh portion you can go there click on it and it will take you directly to Amazon that's the easiest way to get it and it's available in hardcover paperback ebook and now audio book I just finished uh reading it and publishing the audiobook part and it's in my voice all except for two parts of it are not in my voice the about the author and the forward are in my wife's voice she actually read it because she read she read the she wrote the forward for the book so I wanted to make sure she got to read that but otherwise it's my voice and you can buy either on that way or when you're on my website you can send me an email or phone call me because my number's on there too and if you want a signed copy then we can figure out the best way to make that happy it's funny it's funny I had it somebody who bought one here at on campus and they said oak I want you to autograph my book for me and I said absolutely not and they said what what do you mean I said I don't have an autograph famous people had autographs I said I'll sign it for you but I don't have an autograph.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Sir I'm gonna take you up on that I'm gonna get the book and then I'm gonna get it sent over to you so you can sign it for me. I look forward to reading absolutely I'd love to so think in long term you know five 10 years from now where are you at on your leadership journey?

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Where do you want to be yeah so I I still want to you know somebody asked me if I when I'm gonna retire I'm gonna be 60 in January and they said so are you looking at retiring I said I'm never going to retire. I said now I may slow down a little bit but I I'm not gonna retire. I just can't and one of the reasons is because I do believe that it is our responsibility the leaders of today it is our responsibility to produce the next generation of leaders at some point we are going to turn around we're gonna be so old I'm gonna be so old that nobody's gonna want to listen to me anymore and I'm gonna have to hand it off to the next generation. And if we don't do a good job of producing those we're gonna get what we sowed. I mean it it just that's the way it is. And so five years from now 10 years from now I hope I'm still going around even if just locally and talking about leadership and helping develop young men and women into the leaders that they should be and again in my philosophy that's a servant leader but just improve their leadership ability in some way I I hope that I'm still doing that.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

I love that and then you brought something up too that always stuck with me is leaders cannot harvest what they have not sown and cultivated. You have to sew that first.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

I love that if you are calling yourself a leader and you are not mentoring somebody I'm arguing you're not a leader you're a boss. If you that is part of our responsibility as leaders is to mentor somebody I don't care if it's one person hopefully the higher up you get the more people you're gonna mentor but you got to be at least all the time be mentoring at least one person if you want to call yourself a leader because that is our job is to produce leaders produce more leaders. We don't produce followers.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

And that's one of the hardest things that I had to learn at a certain point in my career is like when can when was I the right person to be that mentor for me I didn't realize that I had what it was in until I was a company grade officer because at that point I thought that I had to have enough time in position to be a mentor but then my um my battalion commander pulled me aside is like Josh exactly what you just said is like you need to be mentoring these lieutenants. You need to be mentoring these platoon sergeants, squad leaders because you have combat experience but more importantly than that you have leadership experience and you are gauged our legacy I think is gauged on how successful our team is when we're gone. How much do they perform and that that's really what our legacy is I love that.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Absolutely I you know to me the the the reason I wrote the book titled the book the way it is your leadership legacy because some but somebody actually told me asked me one time said so are you really that egotistical that you're talking about your leadership legacy in I said look it's not about me if you read my book you're gonna find out I'm not talking about my legacy in what kind of a great leader I am I'm talking about what kind of organizations we produced, how successful they were and how successful my junior leaders that I help mentor and and teach become that's your legacy is those future generation of leaders who then are going to be the ones responsible for for producing the next generation of leaders generation to generation to generation that is what your leadership legacy is.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah that's that's very powerful so I'm writing that down so as we wrap this up how have you seen your house of leadership change over the years and I and I call house of leadership from J.R. Flatter one of the mentors that I've had in in my life is this is his leadership philosophy, but he he sees it as a metaphorical house. We have a bedrock our walls and and a roof how have you seen your leadership philosophy or your house of leadership change throughout your career yeah so I I think like you uh you know you mentioned it when you're first started out starting out as a leader you you may know that you have some of the tools and and that but but you're not quite very confident.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I think I'm pretty confident now in about what I I believe in and what what works as a leader and how to impart that on other people having said that I mean we all know that just because something works for me as a leader doesn't mean it's going to work for you. You got to find your own in there. But I think that that I I have now gotten to the point where I'm very comfortable being a mentor uh and and passing on life lessons leadership lessons um that because again it's all it's about people and and it's about life and if you can you can pass on that's the easiest way for somebody to learn I always tell people a leader's got to learn continue to learn if you're not continuing to learn then you're stagnant. And the one of the best ways to do that besides having a mentor is reading autobiographies because then you find out not only what somebody did a great leader did but why they did what they did. And that's really again it's about life lessons and figuring out what works for you.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

So I think my my I'm to the point now where I'm a little bit higher than I think I'm not at the end because I think we again we can all learn but I think that I'm pretty comfortable with my house and being able to um impart that on other people yeah no absolutely all right it's time for a show segment that I like to call the killer bees be brief be present be brilliant and be gone question one What do you believe separates an average leader from a great leader?

SPEAKER_01 33:32

I would say again go back to trust uh if you can build the trust with your people then you're gonna be a good leader second question what is one resource you could provide to our listeners that you wish you would have known when you started out oh wow that's that's a great great question now you gotta remember you people have the internet now where when I first started we didn't have that so I mean there's all kinds of leadership websites out there and go to them look I again read everything you can read about leadership there's some crap out there let's be honest but there's also some great stuff out there you got to figure out what that is for you again what what works for me may not work for you and what works for you may not work for me but read it all and then figure out what it is that you can put in your tool bag to use that's a great sir um all right third question uh if there is an opportunity to give yourself one piece of advice when you're younger what would it be? Never ever ever turn down a leadership experience if somebody wants you to be the leader be the leader. That's the I can sit here and tell you for a year we can bring every expert in here to and teach you everything you would need to know about leadership but until you go out there and be the leader doesn't mean anything. Get out there and be a leader.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Last question sir how can our listeners find you and more importantly how can they add value to you?

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yeah so um you can find me on my website you can find me on most social media i i'm on linkedin I'm on uh twitter I'm on uh Facebook not too many Oakland mccullas out there so I think you can probably find me pretty easy in fact I know that there's only three that I know of me my son and my grandson so uh and I think you can probably figure out which one of which one of us is which when you look on at the websites and then uh if if you are you know if you know of some organization or your organization is having some kind of a training event for leadership and you want somebody to come talk give me a call I'd love to come talk to your give my leadership presentation and talk to your junior leaders about leadership. I'm gonna do that in September. I got two of them in September. I got a a company I'm gonna talk to about 50 junior leaders for a company in New Orleans and I'm gonna be at an HR conference in Vermont um at the end of September.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

So yeah and I'll also make sure sir that the website and the information is in the show notes for this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Would love to come do that if that's what what uh if you if you need that and uh but just give give people give me your feedback if you read the book give me your feedback I really do want to hear your feedback because I do think I have one more book in me.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

So yeah sir well hey thank you so much for being our very first guest on Tells a Leadership podcaster all right that was Lieutenant Colonel retired Oakland McCulloch again over 40 years of leadership experience a published author and a public speaker what I took from this is three key takeaways after every military operation after every large exercise I've always done an after action review an AAR or a hot wash here is today's hot wash top three things you should take away take responsibility for your action number one you have to be able to own your mistakes and hold yourself accountable because if you can't hold yourself accountable you're going to be unable to hold others accountable in your formation or your organization number two leadership is a privilege not a right if your goal is to improve your position you need to quit because your goal is to improve the organization and add value to your team number three your legacy we are defined by the actions of others that we have mentored and coached what results have they uh accomplished and more importantly what decisions and character uh do they develop over time that is our legacy as a leader how our junior leaders grow and what they become is what will define our legacy that is the end of this episode I am your host Josh McMillian saying remember every day is a gift do not waste yours and hey if this podcast brought you value make sure that you subscribe leave a review and share this podcast with someone who is just starting out on their leadership journey and can benefit from this content. I'll see you next time