Chad Brown is a leadership engagement expert. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves, their teams, and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work. Chad is an Associate Partner at Take New Ground and the host of The Naked Leadership Podcast with the founding partners of TNG. Over the last five years, Chad has trained and developed leaders at globally recognized brands like Lulu Lemon and Ironclad Document Services, along with many burgeoning start-ups.
Connect with Chad Brown:
-Website: https://takenewground.com/
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chad.leslie.brown/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chad-brown-leadership-coach-477a7015/
-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@adriankoehler
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-Leadership Resources: https://linktr.ee/McMillionLeadership
-Resilence-Based Leadership Program: https://resiliencebuildingleader.com/
- Discount Code: JMCMILLION
My Mission: I will end toxic leadership practices by equipping leaders with transformational leadership skills.
Together, we will impact 1 MILLION lives!!!
Every day is a gift, don't waste yours!
Joshua K. McMillion | Founder MLC
Chad Brown is a leadership engagement expert. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves, their teams, and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work. Chad is an Associate Partner at Take New Ground and the host of The Naked Leadership Podcast with the founding partners of TNG. Over the last five years, Chad has trained and developed leaders at globally recognized brands like Lulu Lemon and Ironclad Document Services, along with many burgeoning start-ups.
Connect with Chad Brown:
-Website: https://takenewground.com/
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chad.leslie.brown/
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chad-brown-leadership-coach-477a7015/
-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@adriankoehler
✅ SHARE THIS PODCAST
✅ GIVE A 5-STAR REVIEW
✅ SUPPORT
-Leadership Resources: https://linktr.ee/McMillionLeadership
-Resilence-Based Leadership Program: https://resiliencebuildingleader.com/
- Discount Code: JMCMILLION
My Mission: I will end toxic leadership practices by equipping leaders with transformational leadership skills.
Together, we will impact 1 MILLION lives!!!
Every day is a gift, don't waste yours!
Joshua K. McMillion | Founder MLC
You're listening to the Tells the Leadership podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader what I like to call a pal. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership. Welcome back to Tells the Leadership podcast. I am your host, josh McMillian, an active duty army officer and the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching. I am on a mission to create a better leader what I like to call a purposeful, accountable leader or a pal. My vision is simple I want to impact 1 million lives in the next 10 years, not plan to do that by sharing transformational stories and skills.
Speaker 1:In today's episode, I'm going to be interviewing a transformational leader Chad Brown. Chad Brown is a leadership engagement expert. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves, their teams and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their lives. Chad is an associate partner at Taking New Ground and the host of the Naked Leadership podcast with the partners of TNG. Over the last five years, chad has trained and developed leaders at globally recognized brands such as Lululemon and Ironclad Services. Chad is a purposeful, accountable leader. Let's go ahead and bring him on, chad. Welcome to Tells the Leadership brother, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing so good. Thanks for having me, Josh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an honor and a privilege and I always say this every time that I have someone on the podcast, but I genuinely mean it. I love talking about leadership and the best part of my day it's kind of like winding down and getting to talk about something that I'm passionate about. Amen, I'm here for it, so kind of just setting the stage, providing an overview for our listeners. Who is Chad Brown?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, I'm a lot of things. The things that come to mind right off the bat is that I'm a husband to a beautiful woman named Katie. We've been married. Next year we'll be married 20 years.
Speaker 1:Oh, congratulations man.
Speaker 2:Thank you. We have three beautiful children. I got a girl, girl, boy, so Addison, kenyan, milo, and Addison is turning 17. In a couple of weeks, milo will be turning 10 and Keny will be turning 13. So we've got a couple of birthdays, we've got three birthdays coming up, and that's I mean, that's who I am at my core.
Speaker 2:That's why I do everything that I do is my family. I love my family dearly. I work to spend time with them and to, and all of the honestly, all the leadership stuff that I do as well really helps me, obviously, to just be with them in a really meaningful way, and I know that that's going to be my legacy. So when people ask me who I am, that's what I think of first. Secondarily, I'm a leadership coach and consultant.
Speaker 2:What that means is I get to work with CEOs, company founders, day in and day out in the most crucial conversations that relate to their businesses and their teams. We get to dive into the conversations that most people don't want to have but actually create results, and we do that through a couple of different ways. I get to be one to one with them on a regular basis and we also do a lot of offsite work, so we get to be with them for a couple of days at a time a whole team and dig in that way. We also do a few public trainings as well. A year about four or five public trainings a year. We can talk a little bit about those later too. But that's really who I am. I also love to be outdoors. Any moment that I get, I'm in the woods, I'm up in the mountains, I'm on the ski slopes, I'm paddling a paddle board, doing some rock climbing, whatever I can do to just get outside and breathe some fresh air, get some meditative exercise in.
Speaker 1:I love that the Army's ruined me when it comes to outdoor activities. I used to love to go camping and do all that stuff until the Army sent me and then I would sleep in literally a swamp. I remember Ranger school. I was up to my chest and it was like 60 degree just water. I call it pudding, but it wasn't even water, it was like literally like chocolate pudding and I'm like I'm never going camping again.
Speaker 2:The Army's just ruined it, Not on my own fruition right.
Speaker 1:I love that, and you said something that I just want to go back to before we even start, and it's the leadership, is the legacy, and I see that especially nowadays of individuals with a transitional mindset in leadership. They'll take over a role and they only ever view that position in the timeframe that they have it and they make the decisions based on their time and not beyond it. And I love how you define legacy is hey, your legacy is your children, and the same way and I resonate with that is that how my children are molded and who they become defines if I'm successful or not. And then you can use that in two different realms. You could use that for your employees, the team members that you build and groom the leaders they become, or your children, the leaders that they become. So that was already an amazing point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, I was you know one thing that I always work with my clients as soon as we start getting talking together. Working together is most business owners, most leaders inside a business, think that they're leading. They're leading a business. Their job is to produce a product that more profitably or better, you know, a better service or whatever, whatever it is, they think that their mission is, and I tell them that's actually not your mission. Your mission is to develop people. If you choose to, if you choose to take it like, if you want to play the big game, like if you want to play the game that really matters, you're in a position. Your product and your business gives you the opportunity to develop human beings and if you want to be that kind of leader, then we're going to get along.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the army has a saying people first, mission always. And at the end of the day, we're only successful you, me, we are only successful if the individuals that are working for us truly buy in to the vision and then put their hands and toil in the soil. And if they don't do that and they aren't fully committed to it, the results will show, and that's something that I've seen so so often in the military. I would love to kind of take it so. First of all, I love having coaches on, because you know, I'm a coach too, but we always have like a different aspect and you're an entrepreneurial coach, which I absolutely love, and the army's fully embraced this. So the army just recently launched a program it's called the army coaching program of where they're training junior and senior military leadership to kind of foster this kind of culture within organizations and kind of just starting there is how would you define leadership? Because I love hearing people's definitions of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my leadership, my definition of leadership is really simple it's creating results through other people, and you know, all of the conversations that I have over and over again is all results based. What are the results? What are the results? We got to look at the results to know if we're effective, to know if we're doing our work, to know if we're actually committed to the vision. We have to look at the results and if we're causing the results through other people, then we're leading them towards.
Speaker 2:I love, I love talking to guys like you, military guys, because there's so much crossover in the language. Yeah, and, and more than just crossover language, lots of people talk about vision, lots of people talk about mission, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just like really good catchy phrase stuff. You guys really own it, embody it, and that's what I love about having a conversation with you and and the other people that I you know, that are military based, that I've been able to have because you understand. I mean the stakes are so high for you and much higher than you know not yielding a profit in quarter three but that embodiment is really what we invite our clients into because we think the stakes are really high as well, if you actually believe you're developing human beings and you can create results through them by doing that, then the stakes are high because I don't know about you. I mean I'll the leaders that in my life that really invested in me, really saw me and wanted to create results through me in like a powerful, meaningful way.
Speaker 2:We're willing to give me tough feedback, but we're willing to cheer me on. I remember every single one of them. I have their voices in my head every single time something becomes a struggle, and that's really what we're encouraging our clients to do in the realm of leadership.
Speaker 1:I love that and I had General Petraeus on not too long ago and he really summed up the whole idea of a learning model of how to embrace vision within an organization, and he did it through the lens of strategic level leadership and to your point. It's so true, how we create buy-in determines our results of how we do the work. But from my perspective, how we do the work is literally life or death. So we have to create such a deep level of buy-in within our formations and organizations and, to me, what I've always learned is separated, like great leaders, is their ability to connect authentically and vulnerably with individuals, and I think that is what is missing most time, because my base leadership style is meekness, and if you ever heard that, you're probably like combat veteran with tattoos everywhere, deployments, combat.
Speaker 1:But meekness isn't weakness in my mindset, it's listening, being authentic, being vulnerable and then, when you've heard everything and everyone has had an opportunity to provide feedback, you act decisively and you move forward. That type of leadership philosophy has always worked. But he brought the idea out of creating the big idea, getting the idea right and then moving into communication, communicating that, creating alignment, head, heart and getting the hand started, and then the milestones of along the way, having those KPIs, if you want to use that term or whatever, and then refining it and then continuing and continuing that loop. So the first place I would love to really dig into your leadership style or leadership journeys. Where did that start for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it started early, early on. But really the I think all of us are learning constantly of what leadership is and isn't, from early on, from our parents to our school teachers, to, you know, even ourselves. How do we show up? Where do we chicken out? When do we show up? All of that sort of stuff. We're starting to discover what works and what doesn't work in the realm of leadership. For me, that the real concrete journey of where I am today actually coaching these people, is. In 2007, I started a real estate investment company where I paired up Investors with new properties, new build properties and we're going to build all the properties. Investors put up the money and we're going to go out and build them real fast and then sell them for a lot of profits with the profit with the investors. But the problem is that we started building most of these properties late 2007, early 2008.
Speaker 1:Oh, no yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, we went out with a bang because I was ready to make a lot of money and that was my main aim, that was my main vision was to make some money.
Speaker 2:And I mean everybody knows where this story is going. It's listening late 2008, early 2009,. The market crashes, we lose everything. You know, we're sitting on that many properties over leveraged and undereducated and we lose it all. And that was probably I mean one that was the most depressive time of my life. I was so depressed man, I was beating myself, I was beating myself bloody and, you know, luckily I had enough wits about me to really learn some lessons and the lesson that I came away, the major lesson I came away from that with, was I'm never going to do anything just for money again. Whatever I'm committing my time to and my focus, I must believe that it's making a difference in the world.
Speaker 2:Like a difference that I want to make and that I'm committed to and that I can measure, that I can be involved in. And so at that moment I remembered that I loved making film, I loved video work. I did it in high school, never really considered it as a career, so I decided to do it and I started a video production company, moved down to Southern California with my wife and two kids at the time little, teeny, tiny babies we loaded our Scion XB up with as much things, as many things as we could get in there, and if you know anything about those cars, they're like little refrigerator cars there's no room at all, especially when you get two car seats in them. And we drove down with very little money in the bank and a hope and a dream and a vision to make a difference and very quickly partnered up with somebody else who was doing something similar that I could learn a lot from, and we grew really quick.
Speaker 2:Within two or three years we were doing big, big production projects for brands like Volkswagen, pixar, animation Studios, target, and as we grew so fast, you know, I thought again once again. We already talked about this, but I thought we were in the film business. I thought what we were doing in the world was making videos and I missed I missed horribly this idea that we were actually leading people or developing human beings and we were terrible leaders man, it was terrible to work for us.
Speaker 2:I mean, we were traveling to 290 days out of the year, running people into the ground, you know, expecting them to invest everything that they've got into this thing and not giving really good money and we were like what is going on?
Speaker 2:Like we do not know how to do this Because, yes, on paper and on social media, we looked successful, extremely profitable, but we were not able to do it and we were like what is going on? And we were like what is going on? And we were like what is going on, like we do not know how to do this, because, yes, on paper and on social media, we looked successful, extremely profitable, speaking from stages, you know all of that sort of stuff, and we were miserable, miserable, and the people that worked for us were miserable. So we said this isn't working. We can't figure this out in the next six months. We're going to walk away, close the doors, walk away, because really, what hit me the hardest is I realized one night that I was not proud of the dad that I was and I wasn't proud of the husband that I was, and I didn't see how it was going to change and it scared the shit out of me. And so we decided six months.
Speaker 2:Six months is what we got and, like, I mean, almost to the exact same time, I got connected with a guy by the name of Adrian Kaler who called himself a business coach. I even know business coaching was a thing Like I did. It was just like what's this? Okay, great, he wants to talk to me. He thinks he's got some answers, great, let's go. And I thought he was going to help us, you know, manage our time better and do all of those things that we think is the problem. And what he did is he invited me to completely transform the way that I saw life and the way that I saw myself and my commitment. And you know, I tell this story often one of the first calls that I had with him, he said you know, he's just regular.
Speaker 2:What's not working, guys, tell me, you know, bring me up to speed. And I said you know, I'm a family man and I really want a lot of time, I want quality time with my family, and we just haven't been able to create that in that, in this business. And he looked me in the eyes and he said you're lying. And I was like what do you mean? I'm lying, it's like you're not a family man. I was offended, I was, I was taken back, I was pissed off and and you know, at least luckily I hung in long enough for him to explain it. But he said you know, if you wanted it, you would have it, if you were committed to it, it would be so.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was one of the most powerful things anybody has ever said to me. He believed in me enough not to believe me.
Speaker 1:It was a lie.
Speaker 2:It was a lie. I was committed to my business way more than I was committed to my family. Anyway, over the next four, four-ish years he really helped me develop a life that I was really proud of, that business. I ended up buying that partner out of that business. It no longer worked for either of us, so I got to buy him out of it and then ultimately built that business to a place where it kind of ran autonomously without much of my attention, all through his help.
Speaker 2:And all of a sudden I had all this time on my hands and all of this, you know, opportunity to like dream again. And I was thinking you know, what is it that I want to do? What is it that I want to do to make a difference once again. And I knew it almost instantly that I wanted to do what Adrian had done for us, and that was to help other business owners, entrepreneurs, find their way in leadership in a way that is meaningful. And so I started working with him and we worked. To this day. We still work together in this capacity.
Speaker 2:He's the founder of our firm and I get to work side by side with him every single day.
Speaker 1:There's so much there Chad to unpack. I love that. To me it's inspiring is someone moves their family on a hope and a dream and is able to create a successful business at least you know initially. And I always come up with the concept of grit like what? What makes a resilient leader and I'm going through a leadership coaching program right now, but like grit and you'll learn this about military people is that we can turn any word into an acronym Of course.
Speaker 1:But it takes four things guts, a resilient spirit, integrity and then tenacity to actually go do it. And to me that is just inspiring is that you moved your family across country with an unwillingness which I believe is part of like a purposeful, accountable leader, a transformational leader that you're, that you were going to be successful. But when you were successful and this is so true and I want to make sure that this is clear with people you got lost in the goal versus the growth, if that makes sense. You were focused on growing your business and you basically got like tunnel vision in the forest.
Speaker 1:It's easy when you're in the trees to lose where you're at, because everything is just disorienting. And when you start a company and you're leading people, you can forget that you actually have people on your team and you got individuals who have children, you have individuals who have issues, health issues, and you have to learn to lead the whole person to get those results. But then you also realized, hey, that life was not sustainable for who Chad wanted to be. And then you found a coach and always call him like an accountability tree, someone who's deeply rooted, who does not want to hear your BS but will show you or mentor you or guide you, be a shepherd on another way of doing it, and that's amazing. But I would kind of want to dig back into you, moving across country, kind of in that mindset, walk me through that. How did you have that unreasonableness or maybe a better word was confidence that, hey, this is a passion of mine and I want to go pursue it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting, man. I think about that a lot because as you get at least my experience, I think people can relate to this as you get older and more established and settled in, to think about doing something like that, holy cow.
Speaker 1:I can't believe I did that I love it.
Speaker 2:But, honestly, you've probably, josh, been in positions in your life where you had nothing to lose, yeah, and that's what it felt like. It felt like it already lost. So what the hell? Yeah, and there is a interesting phenomenon of confidence that happens in a soul when there's nothing to lose. And that's what I was experiencing. Man, I knew that I was going to go out fighting, no matter what. I didn't know what it was going to take, which we never do when we enter in, when we take a jump, when we stake a claim. We don't know what it's going to take. We're just saying I'm in, I'm committed, no matter what, whatever it takes. Yeah, and that's truly what it was. And it's interesting for me to trace back now. You know that losing everything was both a gift and maybe a little bit of a curse through that process, because through that loss, you know, in this new venture building this business, I was determined that I was never going to be in that space again ever.
Speaker 2:And to me that was a financial space, and so I disregarded all of my other responsibilities to make sure that we would never be in that financial space again. And that's where I missed the mark, because, like you said, life is complex. Yeah, we are holistic human beings and there's so much for us to pay attention to, and if we're unwilling to see what's in front of us, or if we're unwilling to see what's needed and wanted at the time, we can get very lopsided.
Speaker 1:All right, team. Let's take a quick break from this podcast and I want to personally invite you to our private Facebook community that I call Purposeful Accountable Leaders, or PALS, and PALS is a community dedicated to inspiring and developing servant leaders by sharing transformational stories and skills exactly what tells the leadership is all about. My goal is to build a community of like-minded leaders that can share lessons, learn, ask questions and celebrate wins when it happens. And my mission in life is clear I will end toxic leadership by sharing transformational stories and skills, and you will find countless transformational leaders in this group, many of them I have had the honor to serve with in the military. If you want to find a community that can help you grow both personally and professionally, we would love to have you. You can simply search Purposeful Accountable Leaders on Facebook or click the Leadership Resources tab in the show notes to join. I am looking forward to seeing you guys and continuing to grow together on our leadership journey.
Speaker 1:Back to the podcast. It's funny kind of you know, hearing you walk through your story. I would say your spark to me is the moment of realization of the miracle of coaching. You know when I was kind of going through international coaching federation certification program. There is a aha moment almost with every kind of like coaching session in a way of that. How have I never thought of that before.
Speaker 1:And it's usually like another acronym, you know, kiss. I think we've all heard that one. Keep it simple, stupid. That's the motto of my life, because I am an infantry officer, so all the stereotypes right. But it's so true is that you found someone that could kind of help you, guide you, in a way of being a shepherd, and put you on this path. But that's another thing too, is that I want to kind of dig in. Before you found the coach, and I had a mentor tell me this In the military it's even more demanding to kind of frame this in a perspective of controlling your time.
Speaker 1:When I was a company commander, my first company command, I would be at work at 5 30 in the morning to run a four a 5 45 meeting, essentially a sync. Before the sync, that's what we called it. And then we had a six o'clock formation and then we would go do PT at six o'clock to eight o'clock and then I usually wouldn't get home until 6, 30 or 7 o'clock at night and that's a demanding schedule. But the boss kind of told me one day is like hey, josh, how you spend your time shows me your priorities. And it never dawned on me that, hey, I am a holistic person, I'm a father, I'm a husband, all of these labels, everything, chad that you set up front.
Speaker 1:And it didn't really dawn on me until I was getting my master's degree and I had time to reflect on how can I live, truly live, and have harmony between work, family and self. How can I do that? And to me, I discovered it on my own, but I love how you were able to find a resource or a coach to kind of walk through that. But you know how? How was that challenging, up front, knowing that, hey, you can have harmony in your life?
Speaker 2:I love that you use the term harmony, yeah, and not the term balance. Yes, my version of that is integration. I teach, preach and practice life integration. I don't think that. I don't think I don't believe we have compartments of our lives where, you know, work or or home life, or friends or hobby. The compartments are the stressor, I believe, and you know, for me it's interesting I just had blinders on and I don't know how else to say it is that I was, I was solely focused on one thing. I heard it. I heard a quote the other day that I really loved and it really. I just think it's such a great way to look at this is that show me your bank account and your calendar last year and I'll tell you what you prioritize, or I'll tell you I'll show you what you cry, you care about.
Speaker 2:If you were to look at my bank account, my calendar at that time, it was all work. It was all work, that's it. I mean to the point where I was missing birthdays and anniversaries and momentous events and school events, without even a second thought, and I was couching it in. I was couching it in the like, in the, in the light of like. I'm doing this for you Can't? You see, I'm doing this for you.
Speaker 2:And yes, I mean part of it is I wanted success. Part of it was I wanted to make money for my family. Sure that that was there. But ultimately, man, I was high on the success.
Speaker 2:I was high on the when in the client. I was high on the big paycheck, I was high on the speaking from the stages and the attention and the elite. You know all of that and it was intoxicating. It was an addiction and I couldn't see the damage, just like any other addict. I couldn't see the damage I was doing in other areas of my life because all that mattered was the addiction.
Speaker 1:There's a podcast I was listening to this morning. I can't remember what it was, but I talked about, like the achievement trap is individuals and I'm assuming you have the same kind of personality as me as we get addicted to achievement in a way, is that you're always chasing that. But there's a term it's probably overused but it's true as a hedonic treadmill is that we assume when we get to that point, or we make that amount of money or we get that job or we buy that new toy, we are going to fill, fulfill, that, yeah, we're going to be happy, but then when that moment comes, we don't feel anything. We're we're leading up to that point, is the dopamine in our body that is fueling us to be excited and energetic and enthusiastic, but soon as that moment happens, you don't have any real sense of fulfillment.
Speaker 1:Now you're looking again and again and again and again and it just goes to gold. That's fire, Chad.
Speaker 2:I get to. I get to. You know, I get a. I get a behind the scenes. Look at this every single day and I'm so grateful that I get this reminder for myself, which is I get to work with really successful, hard driving entrepreneurs. They got. They have success, they have money, that some of them have popularity and you know the. The number one thing that they say to me when we get on one of our first calls is that they are bored.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's insane, wow.
Speaker 2:And it's so eye-opening because they're miserable. There is despair in their success and so it's a beautiful process, right, we get to work together to actually start adding some meaning back into the life. But it doesn't have anything to do with the bottom line, it doesn't have anything to do with the profitability, the next product, none of that. And that's you know. To watch somebody go through that process and having been through it myself of oh geez and look man, I can, even I still get lost in it.
Speaker 2:I'd be, it'd be ridiculous for for me to pretend like there aren't times in my life where I'm like, oh man, if I just had a little bit of money or if I just had that trip or that thing, man, I would be so happy and I catch myself. I practice recognizing that in myself, because recognizing in myself is so crucial to being able to recognize it in, in in my clients and the people that I work with. But vision, man, vision and aim and working towards it is the only thing that is fulfilling to a hard driving human being, individual. The challenge and the struggle is that's it. That's the only thing that's going to create meaning.
Speaker 1:There's a beautiful analogy kind of the time. This, the army is when you go to the range and you fire your weapon. Well, there's there's point, the area effects and the point effects. Point effects essentially like an individual weapon that you're looking through a single shot to take down a target, and the area weapon is like a machine gun where you're just scattering and suppressing. When you fire your rifle, if you don't have a clear sight picture at looking down the barrel, you're never going to hit your target. It's going to look like you're working to the outside, like that dude's a BAMF. You know he's doing everything right, but the individuals who know you and in yourself, you know that you're not hitting down any targets. You're just toiling through the day. And it kind of goes back to what I love already identified theme in this podcast is is legacy, defining legacy. Who, who do you want to be at the end of the day? Who are you growing into? So walk me through. You know what are the secrets of becoming a world class leader?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a big question. Yeah Well, we start with the human level. Whenever I'm working with somebody and they're dissatisfied in their, in their business, for whatever reason, typically our clients find us typically my clients find me in the intersection of really successful business, very successful product or service, terrible leadership. They, you know their people, they've got high turnover or they're disconnected from their people or you know all of that sort of stuff, and the team can't support the demand and they're starting to notice that it's the, the, the disconnection on the team is starting to affect their ability to deliver what it is they've promised to deliver to the world in product or service. And that's never I say that's never a systematic problem. That's always a human problem. And so the greatest leaders can recognize that if human connection is number one, everything else will take care of itself. If we can see the person, if we can see their personal vested interests as a I use a principle called PVI personal vested interest If their personal vested interests can align with the mission and vision of the company, then everything will work out fine. But in order for you to know how, if they align or not, you have to know what it is.
Speaker 2:Most leaders that I start working with don't even know why their people get up in the morning. What drives them, what do they dream about, what do they care about, what do they think about the? What's the first thought that comes in their mind when they wake up, the last thought that enters their mind before they fall asleep? All of that stuff is an indication for for people's personal vested interest, and if you can't create alignment between that and the vision of your company, well then you're going to burn people out. They're just, they just got a job and they're not. They're not going to take risk with you, they're not going to get. You know, as you talked about being vulnerable, why be vulnerable in a place that doesn't have interest in what you want? So that's where we start is what is the humanists that you are missing? And so much of that, honestly, man, so much of why leaders miss the humanists is because their own self-protection, they're so scared of being seen.
Speaker 1:Would you say they're scared of being seen because they have an imposter syndrome?
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, they make up all this shit that they're supposed to be for their people and it's impossible. It's not human themselves. That's why they don't want to see the humanness of other people. They feel like they've got to put on something that isn't even human and that creates the disconnection. You know what it's like to try to work with somebody or have a conversation with somebody who isn't willing to reveal that they're human, to talk about their mistakes or their missteps or their fears or their greatest dreams and visions. And that's ultimately my opinion.
Speaker 2:Nobody has to believe anything I'm saying. I'm not saying I know this to be true. I'm saying this is what I've found and this is what I practice with my clients, and when they can get in touch with that, it's clear. And then that opens up conversations that they've been unwilling to have, that feel like really risky conversations and that's the action that comes from recognizing and being willing to be seen. So, pretty much you know, within the first little while the clients that I'm working with, they're starting to have these conversations that they've been unwilling to have for decades sometimes.
Speaker 1:There's so much there and to hire the right people I'll call it H-Talk To hire the right people, train and observe and coach them. You have to know and I love how you wrote the PBI personal invested interest. You have to understand what the values you want replicated or emulated, the priorities, beliefs. And I come down to the rule of mirrors. It's kind of one of the rules that I have within. Leadership is whatever you say and do will be replicated within your organization and your team. The leader is the mirror. And then I also love how you talked about the concept of.
Speaker 1:I see there's two paths that a leader can take and eventually we'll choose which one. We want to go down. You'll be a toxic leader that controls information. They're entitled, they use all of their authority, they don't want to show weakness, they have a false image, they're very top down, very authoritarian in a way. Or you can be a transformational leader and you can have that servant mindset and literally flip the hierarchy where you're on the bottom and you're serving everyone else.
Speaker 1:But I think in order to do that, you have to be able to connect authentically and you have to be able to know who you are. And it goes to the first phase of leadership that I think we all agree upon is that leading yourself, self leadership, 100% Can't lead an organization if you don't know who the heck you are, and you can't lead your family if you don't know who the heck you are and you don't know what's important to you. And that's the whole core culture of building a resilient team is starting at the top. It starts with you, it starts with that leader, it starts with the visionary and everyone else kind of working.
Speaker 2:So good. One of the things that I talk about with my clients all the time is it starts with you. It starts with you what's your contribution? And I don't mean like the vision or the action starts with you. I mean, whenever there's a breakdown, you've got to own. You got to recognize and own your contribution to the breakdown and own it with your team first, if you want anybody to do anything productive with the breakdown. So that's where we start first. Anytime they've got a complaint about an employee or the team or the product or whatever, my first question it's so annoying to them. They hate it, I love it. But my first question is how did you contribute to this breakdown? And then my second question is does your team know that? And if you don't know how you contribute to it and your team doesn't know it, then you're just putting on a facade and every world class leader in from my perspective, every world class leader owns their contribution consistently.
Speaker 1:Alright team. Let's take a quick break from this episode and I want to share a leadership resource with you, and that is the resiliency based leadership program. Rblp's vision is to create a worldwide community of practice committed to building and leading resilient teams. So why do you need to build and lead a resilient team? Resilient teams are the key to individual and organizational growth, regardless of being in the military or in the civilian workforce. Building collective teams allows for exponential growth and the team's ability to overcome adversity, adapt and, most importantly, grow. And in bottom line, up front, resilient teams are just stronger together.
Speaker 1:And here's the fact 99% of the people who take that course recommended to others, and I'm one of them. I would just completed my certification and I highly recommend this. And the great news is it's most likely free to you. If you're in the military, it is a hundred percent free to you, and if you want to learn more, you can look in the show notes for this episode and find the link and use the discount code J-M-C-M-I-L-L-I-O-N. And that is also in the show notes. Back to the episode. I love that. How did you contribute to that? And then does your team know it? So there's a concept in the Army that I think we use universally. There's two there's a hot washer and AER. After action, review and after everything, good, bad or ugly. If it's more ugly, then it's a hot wash because there's nothing to review to say but what did we do or what was supposed to happen starting off there?
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, whatever mission you're supposed to go on, what did we do? And review is what were the key lessons and how can we improve next time? And always go to the rule of three, because I think more than that, then you're not really improving. You're trying to chase an attain him. What are the three things that we can take from this experience and implement next time to become better?
Speaker 2:I love it. Man, I have a very similar structure that I use both in my team, in my marriage with my kids and with my clients, and it's the feedback structure. So it's what worked, what didn't work, what's wanted and needed. I love it. What worked, what didn't work, what's wanted and needed. It's all neutral. When we have a breakdown, we can come to the table. We can neutralize it all just by getting together and asking all right, what worked, what didn't work, what's wanted and needed.
Speaker 1:That's so good, man. It's funny, you said this upfront. But the similarities between the civilian world and the military world, it's just words, it's just different ways of saying it, but the fundamentals, the science of it, it's there. So, moving to the next question is how do you get people and I think you covered this to really care for a business as much as you? So you started this. How do you create that buy-in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, first off, I say, don't expect them to care about it as much as you do. They shouldn't. It's not theirs. But the closest I believe we can get is somebody who sees how being here on this team contributes to what it is that they want in life. What is it that I ultimately want, what is it that I ultimately care about? And if my work with my team in the business actually contributes to that, supports it, champions it, is a waymaker for it, then I'm in a thousand percent.
Speaker 1:I love the waymaker, I love that brother. There's Galatians 6-9. I love this quote but I pulled it up because it kind of resonated with that. Let us not become wary of doing good for that. We will reap a harvest at the proper time if we do not give up. And to me it kind of really just sums that up just beautifully. So kind of and I know we talked about that before, but I really want to dig into, kind of like the coaching services that you provide. But probably more importantly, what are some of the top trends that you see with your clients, the leaders that you're coaching right now? What are the top three trends?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. Are you talking about when they find me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, when they find you Like the top trending problems that we combat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first one is that most founders, company founders, ceos they don't want to be leaders. I love it. They didn't do this to become a leader of people or humans. Yeah, when they had their brilliant idea, all they saw was an opportunity to send out to the world something they created and it could possibly make some money. And or maybe that was one of their major goals is that they knew it would make a lot of money and that it could be, you know, a vehicle for other things that they want, whether that's travel or things or relationships or whatever.
Speaker 2:Very few creates something meaningful with that, with like, I'm going to now go. If this thing takes off, I'm going to be a developer of humans. That's just not even on their radar. What happens is they find themselves neck deep in this thing and it is successful. And now they are yeah, and that's the whole game. Right, because if they lead these people well, this thing succeeds. If they don't lead these people well, it's dead in the water. So I would say that's the first and most common trend that I see.
Speaker 2:Other ones are they're bored. They put so much weight on success. They put so much weight on growing this thing to a certain place and then they get there and they feel nothing, or maybe it's like celebratory for a moment and then nothing, and they can't figure out why it didn't do the thing that they've always promised themselves that it would. Another interesting I find myself with a lot of interesting or another interesting intersection that I find myself in with a lot of clients is actually after the sale of a business, and they sell the business and they're trying to figure out what's next. And there's so much doubt in that, especially if they've only sold one business, because they're now thinking to themselves was it a fluke, was it luck? Could I do it again? Do I want to do it again? Do I want to pay the price that I had to pay to grow that thing to be that what it became? Do I want to make those sacrifices again? And it's a very lonely place to be.
Speaker 1:I can resonate with that last one just from the standpoint of the military lens and especially from officers. So you know I've been in for 16 years. I've never been in a leadership role for longer than a year. I always move case in point, I'm getting ready to move again in June to Virginia but I've never been in a leadership role for more than a year and you know that's draining to pick up and move to a new team, establish those relationships and pick up the vision and start getting results and doing it again.
Speaker 2:And doing it again.
Speaker 1:And doing it again. Some people thrive in that, but some people, you know that can wear you down. And I can see a similarity there of like, hey, you know creating this new startup company, selling that startup company and doing another company and having to know what it takes to be successful. You know what it takes, yep, but are you willing to put in the work to achieve that success? Or maybe even go beyond it? Because now you know what works and the amount of work, and that's the beauty about leadership the higher you rise, yes, you gain more authority, you gain more title, you gain more money, but your responsibilities grow equally as much, and a lot of people aren't willing to make that sacrifice. I love that last key takeaway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I mean you talk about that in the realm of military. We see it all the time in the realm of business, when good performers get promoted to leadership. Just because you're an excellent mechanic does not mean you're going to be an excellent leader.
Speaker 2:But it's the next natural step right, I mean, you can only go so far as the mechanic. And then, if you want to continue to take on more responsibility, make more money, make a bigger impact in the company, the next step is to then lead people. And that's the other junction where so many leaders find us is like oh my gosh, I didn't know what it was going to be like to go from. Or the founder of CEO is saying I had this amazing performer, he produced so well for us, and then we put him in leadership and the results are less than desirable. And that kind of transition is not something to take lightly. There needs to be support in that transition. I'm not saying people shouldn't transition good performers into leadership, but there needs to be more attention to how do we create results with other people. It's so much different than just going out and creating the results yourself.
Speaker 1:So I have a journal doing this. I call it leadership, intelligence and understanding where you fall within that. So tactical, operational and strategic Everything I do is through the lens of the military, because that's how I was raised as a leader. But tactical are the soldiers that are in the trenches doing the work. Operational are the leaders that are developing the plans and seeing those plans implemented. Strategic, global leadership is the ones who's creating those big ideas or top level ideas and then they're giving them to the operational leaders actually implement.
Speaker 1:With leadership it's the same way. You may be a phenomenal rock star at what you do, but then you get a leadership role. But when you take over that leadership role you fall through the cracks because you were promoted early and it takes time to groom someone to take over a team, and I think a lot of times in the military they do a phenomenal job, but that's because the stakes are very high. At least you know, when I was in the infantry before I transitioned to acquisitions, we focused a lot of our time on developing people and to me, that's why the military is so beautiful is that we grow our leaders from within. And one difference from us versus, you know other militaries across the world.
Speaker 1:What makes us so successful is one thing, and it's our NCOs, the non-commissioned officers, and they start from individual privates and then they get built up that way, but it's the backbone of our organization. That is what makes our country great, truly, from a military perspective. And at the end of the day, all it is is leaders at the lowest level being able to make decisions quickly and rapidly, and we call it mission command, sharing that authority to allow you to kind of achieve results. And then, if you don't have that kind of mindset or you don't develop that type of culture, then you start just promoting people based on performance. Well, then they get there, and to me I think that's what sets up the stage for being a toxic leader, because you don't know what leadership is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what an insecure experience, right.
Speaker 2:I have no idea what I'm doing here, but I'm expected. Look, all eyes are on me, I better put on this facade, I better put on this veneer, and they have a contribution to that. But whoever brought them into that situation also has a major contribution. And you mentioned culture, man, and this is one thing that we stress is you create a culture of leadership, and that means even your performers, even those who are I don't love talking in hierarchy, but it works for our understanding and conversation. So, even those who are bottom of the totem pole, entry level, you'll be amazed if you create a culture of leadership where even those people are being taught how to lead others in the culture.
Speaker 2:It will astonish you what you can bring up in the ranks from even that entry level. It's incredible. And they will be more loyal, they will be more, they'll be adapted to your culture in a way that they can lead, they can jump in at any moment in any project, and so the speed is there. It's just the leadership doesn't happen by a promotion or a title, and we know that and everybody talks about it. But we don't take it to the Many, don't take it to the extent of saying, well, if that's not true, then we've got to start developing leadership all the time, in every level, and if we do that, then when the call arrives they're ready.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's a quote by John Maxwell and it's simple. That's why I remember it, because, remember, go back to infantry, right? So people follow people, they don't follow positions. And it's so true you could be the best individual worker in the world, but if you're a bad leader, people will the leaf, because why would I work for you? You don't care about me. So, kind of going back to that point, you know someone who maybe gets promoted ahead of time. They don't have those leadership skills, or maybe they believe that they don't have those leadership skills. How do you tease out that imposter syndrome and help them work through that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for me, I really battle with the term imposter syndrome.
Speaker 2:I think the feeling of being an imposter is the human experience. If you are, if you're hard driving and if you're willing to take risks and step out of your comfort zone, if you're willing to try things that you've never done before, you're going to experience what it feels like to feel like an imposter, like you don't belong, like you're not worthy. That's the experience. There's nothing wrong with it, and that's why I really despise that we've attached this word syndrome on the back of it, because I'd much rather. I think it's much more beneficial for us to talk about it in the light of we're all imposters, man, hopefully. In fact, I tell people you don't get to be my client unless you're an imposter in some areas of your life, because that means you're doing something new, you're trying something different, you're stepping into the unknown, you're taking risks, and that's the only way that my work's going to work with you is if we're actually out there creating something new, and that, inherently, is going to. You're going to feel like a fraud at times. That's okay.
Speaker 1:I love that man, that frame of mind of identifying what an imposter syndrome is. Because I still have it right. I've won some pretty prestigious leadership awards and when I take over a position or when I interview for another job I still get those butterflies in my stomach that am I really good enough for that position? But to that point that's where I have a sledgehammer mindset and that's a whole other conversation. But we could get into that, but it's just the unreasonableness is that, hey, little voice inside, shut up. It's time to execute and you have to build that internal confidence and it's hard to do and I think a coach is just beautifully aligned to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I say the way we call them. The imposter's voice is to claim it Fire. I love that. So for me, I get it all the time with you, man. I experience it all the fucking time because I am pushing, I'm doing things that scare me. So the other day I got to sit down with a team of leaders five people in this organization and the size of the organization and the difference that they're making in the world and the size of the company is very intimidating to me, extremely intimidating to me. And that's how I started the meeting. I said I'm so grateful to be here, Super nervous.
Speaker 1:I bet you you built an authentic relationship there and that connection almost instantaneous because you were absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I just said look this, I'm in, this, I am, I'm really good at what I do and I'm here for you and that drives me, not my fear. So rest assured, you'll get the best of me. But that doesn't, that doesn't negate the the fact that I'm feeling nerves, and I just want to tell you that. And guess what happened? My nerves Disappated. Now I'm not trying to pretend like I've got it all together. There's no nervousness of a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah which would perpetuate because I'm resisting it. I just claim it. They know where I'm at. I know where I'm at now. We can go forward.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that man so kind of walking through and we're, you know, we're almost at the end and I will tell you is that I haven't even got to half of the questions. I have to have like a part two, and I always tell people this, but it's true, this is probably my favorite episode so far. But I know you have a lot going on and you have your own podcast to the, the naked Leadership podcast, which I'm interested and I think I know. But where did the name come from?
Speaker 2:But the idea was that we just wanted to expose the conversations that nobody else was willing to have. Yes, you know, when it's it's the Emperor's clothes, right it's it's. There's so much posturing and there's so much bullshit out there about, yeah, leadership and what the experience is and all of that sort of stuff, and it's been that for a long time, and we just wanted to say, hey look, we're naked, it doesn't. I mean, we're exposed where we're vulnerable, we're human, we're nervous where, whatever that conversation we were just having, and and and we, I believe, in having those conversations, we open an Opportunity for a lot more people to take risks, because they'll realize that, oh my gosh, I'm having the same experience all those people are. So I why not? I go for it too, do.
Speaker 1:I love the name of that podcast and just you know, kind of a quick plug. Where can listeners find that? Where's it hosted at?
Speaker 2:It's. It's on Anywhere you really you get your podcast, or most, yeah so iTunes, spotify App or, sorry, amazon, those places okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing, and I ain't no full disclosure. I probably shouldn't listen to one of your episodes for breaking you on, but I am going to listen to that and I was really curious of where you got that name from. So that's, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I always give people a starting point because we do have a, we have a hundred and probably at this point we have a hundred and sixty something episodes. So I would encourage you to start it with episode 145. It's called how we do confrontation and it's a. It's a recording of me Bringing up with our two founders. I have two other our founders of our firm, dan and Adrian. They co-host with me and it's me bringing up something to them that I'm, that I like a gripe, that I have with them something that was not working for me, and it's it's real time. They got on thinking we were gonna cover another subject.
Speaker 2:Oh, I just I dropped that and said this is what I want to do. Are you guys in? And they said we're in and we go and it's Awkward, and you can hear my nervousness, you can hear their awkwardness, and but ultimately I wanted to demonstrate how we could come together Even through what wasn't working, what I was frustrated about, what they were surprised about, and that we could really have a meaningful Conversation about it. And so that's my favorite. That's my favorite episode of point people to mmm.
Speaker 1:That's amazing man. It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same four questions that ask every guest on the tales of leadership podcast Be brief, be brilliant, be present and be gone. Question one what do you believe separates a good leader from an extraordinary leader? A good leader- leads people.
Speaker 2:An excellent leader leads leaders. I love that.
Speaker 1:So second question what is one resource that you could recommend to our listeners?
Speaker 2:A book that changed my life leadership and self deception getting out of the box.
Speaker 1:So question three is if you could go back in time to give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be? Don't worry so much. And the final one how can our listeners find you? And then, how can they add value to your mission? Join us on the podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm also on LinkedIn and active on Instagram and, really, if something here resonates with you, reach out to me. That's the best way to to interact with me. Email me, whatever, however, message me, whatever. Yeah, chat. Thank you so much. I mean to the time of filming this what it's a?
Speaker 1:it's almost 10 o'clock my time, central standards, so thank you for being here. I'm glad to be here, central standards. So thank you for being intentional and in discussing something out of absolutely.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, man. Thanks for this the space. You're an incredibly generous host. It's so good.
Speaker 1:Have a great night, brother. All right team. It's time for after-action review. That was an amazing episode with Chad. So what are the top three takeaways that I've pulled from this episode? And there there was a lot. It was a really, really great episode and I could have won one for a very long time. I think I'm gonna have to figure out a way to to cut these down so there are more bite-sized chunks, episodes, but it's hard.
Speaker 1:I always say when, when you have a strong enough why, it demands a response. And I can literally talk for leadership for hours. But the first thing that I pulled from is his grit being able to have a real estate entrepreneur business in 2007, 2008, and then kind of losing it all with the crash that happened, but having that grit to Understand what he was passionate about and then go pursue it, drop everything. That is a purposeful, accountable leader, and remember kind of grit, that acronym having guts, having a resilient spirit, having the integrity Needed and then, finally, the follow-through, the tenacity to actually go do that. So that's the first key takeaway that I have.
Speaker 1:Moving to the next one was an achievement trap, and we've talked about this, but it's so true and especially in like Western culture and society is that we get caught up With chasing that next thing. You heard the hedonic treadmill, the having a goal-minded Mindset versus a growth mindset, or trying to be all thanks to all people all the time, and that's where we kind of talked about fulfillment versus balance. Fulfillment means maybe the season of life that you're in right now you have to be more intentional at work, and that's okay. But you remember that there's other areas of your life and that's something that I do through my coaching is helping cast a vision, and it's all centered around freedom. So freedom is the top level Characteristic that we're trying to achieve, but you also have other areas that you need to have fulfillment in fun fulfillment, what makes you, you know, truly live the design life that you're supposed to filled, being your career, finances, fitness and then family. Like all, those are different areas and you may have other areas, but those are mine. Those are where I'm intentionally trying to grow, not just set goals.
Speaker 1:Goals are important and remember how we talked about the vision of coming up with those big ideas, having it clearly communicated, setting milestones and then continuously refining it. Those milestones are important, but what's truly important is the journey, and that's why I love leadership. It is a journey, it's not a destination. You are never going to arrive. You're never going to be the perfect leader at work. You're never going to be the perfect leader at home. You're never going to be the perfect leader of yourself. So do not get caught up in that achievement trap of just chasing the next thing after the next thing. Celebrate those wins when they come, and trust me, I am probably the worst person that does this. I can move to the next target, move to the next target, move to the next target, but that leads to burnout.
Speaker 1:And the final key takeaway that I have and it was towards the end was Imposter syndrome, and we say it all the time. I brought it up several times on this podcast, but it's so true nowadays is that we all have that imposter syndrome. I still have that imposter syndrome and this is one of. Yeah, I think I'm up to like 70 some episodes, but every time that I get ready to film a podcast, I still get nervous. I led troops in combat. I've commanded organizations of over 250 soldiers. I still get nervous for one-on-one conversations because I asked the question of who am I to put my voice out there and try to Build or try to show people what good leadership looks like, and being a steward of that servant Style, the servant leadership.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, imposter syndrome means we are all imposter. It's part of the human condition that Chad brought up. If you're trying something new and you're stretching your abilities, if you're taking risk, you're an imposter. Congratulations, patch yourself on the back. That means that you're growing. That means that you're still on that journey of life, of leadership. Claim it. So, when you have that feeling of being an imposter, identify that feeling and then claim it, just like Chad said. Hey, guys, if you like this Podcast, if you like the content that I'm providing to you guys, do me a favor subscribe, share and rate this podcast. Leave me a five star review. Most importantly, share it with someone who is in a leadership role or getting ready to start their leadership journey. As always, I am your host, josh McMillian, saying every day's a gift. Don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.