Ep 81 Tales of Leadership with Clint Keeley

Clint Keeley is a retired command sergeant major with two decades of dedicated service in the Army, he is profoundly thankful for the invaluable skills and experiences he gained. Currently, Clint is an integral part of an exceptional company that places a high premium on embracing diversity and recognizing our shared humanity. His professional focus revolves around the dynamic field of consulting, with a particular passion for change management. Clint leverages his expertise in Leadership Development/Training, Project Management, and Coaching to facilitate transformative journeys. Witnessing individuals flourish and surpass their aspirations is their greatest joy!

Connect with Clint Keeley:
-Website: www.propeller.com
-LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/clint-keeley

✅ SHARE THIS PODCAST
✅ GIVE A 5-STAR REVIEW
✅ SUPPORT

-Leadership Resources: https://linktr.ee/McMillionLeadership

My Mission: I will end toxic leadership practices by equipping leaders with transformational leadership skills. 

Together, we will impact 1 MILLION lives!!!

Every day is a gift, don't waste yours!
Joshua K. McMillion | Founder MLC

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

You're listening to the Tells the Leadership podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to becoming a more purposeful and accountable leader what I like to call a pal. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership.

Speaker 2: 0:20

All right team. Welcome back to the Tells the Leadership podcast. I am your host, Josh McMillian, an active duty Army officer and the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching. I am on a mission to end toxic transitional leadership and promote transformational servant leadership. I plan to do that by sharing transformational stories and transformational skills. My goal is to build a better leader, what I like to call a purposeful, accountable leader or a pal.

Speaker 2: 0:50

On today's episode, I am going to be interviewing Clint Ealy. He is a retired command star major with two decades of dedicated service in the Army and is profoundly thankful for his valuable skills and experiences that he's gained. And you can really get that in this episode that we go through. Currently, clint is an integral part of a company that's called Propel and they're focused on coaching and training and mentoring or OCT observer, coach, trainer, and I love that because it kind of goes back to what one of my main jobs was as a company grade officer. His professional focus revolves around the dynamic field of consulting, with a particular passion for change management. Clint leverages his experience in leadership development, training, program management, coaching to facilitate transformational journeys, and he is a phenomenal leader. Again, he rose to the rank of command star major, the highest rank in the Army that you can achieve, and had over 20 plus years in the military with multiple deployments. So, as always, make sure you stay to the very end, and I'm going to provide you an AR.

Speaker 2: 2:02

What the top three takeaways are for this episode. Let's go ahead and bring on Clint Clint. Welcome to the Tells of Leadership podcast. Brother, how are you?

Speaker 3: 2:10

doing man. It's a great morning here in Texas, starting to cool down a little bit.

Speaker 2: 2:15

Oh, I didn't know that that's Texas is kind of where you, where you ended up and you landed.

Speaker 3: 2:20

Man, it's God's country, right. Like every veteran, comes back to Texas, I think. Yeah, what part of Texas, if you don't mind me asking, yeah, so we built our forever home right west of Fort Worth on 10 acres beautiful house, beautiful land, and I find myself taking care of the yard on my off days.

Speaker 2: 2:43

It's a small world. My sister she lives outside of Fort Worth, in Burleson. She works on like the tram or the train metro that they have down there, so that's awesome. She retired out of the Navy and then she moved back to Texas.

Speaker 3: 3:00

Well, if you come down to Burleson, let me know we'll grab a coffee man.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Yeah, brother. Well, so starting off with this, just take the time to kind of introduce yourself no, who is Clint? To the listeners.

Speaker 3: 3:12

Yeah, my name is Clint Kealy. I'm currently a consultant with propeller consulting. I spent 21 years in the Army, retired as a Commence Art major Been, married my wife, Shannon for 21, four years and got four kids one's older and three littles at the house.

Speaker 2: 3:29

So I always love bringing people on from the standpoint of having different perspective when it comes to leadership. So I have, like Navy, I've had Marines, I've had a lot of officers on, but I really haven't had the pleasure and honor really to have a lot of senior non-commissioned officers on. So I'd love to kind of hear from your perspective how you define leadership in your terms.

Speaker 3: 3:55

Yeah, fantastic question, right, and I was thinking about this coming on this podcast what leadership meant to me while I wore the uniform and how does that translate to the civilian sector? Now, right, and I think there's a lot of parallels. But leadership to me, I mean we go to textbook answer of you know, providing guidance and direction and motivation to get the mission done. But I really think it goes deeper than that. Right, like it's. It's leadership is putting yourself out front and always doing that that nobody else wants to do, right, like, hey, we're going to do this, you're, I'm asking you to do this, I'm going to do it with you, right, and I think it's lead by example and walk in the path with somebody else.

Speaker 2: 4:37

Yeah, there's a quote that I kind of always go back to by John Quincy Adams If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more than you are a leader. So I read that quote and in my mind that's exactly. What you're just saying is that it just resonates exactly and encompasses what leadership is. So you join the military, you spent over 20 years and retired at the rank of Sergeant Major. Where do you think your leadership journey started?

Speaker 3: 5:09

Yeah, I mean, you know, I just want to the stage.

Speaker 3: 5:12

You know, I joined prior to 911 and I was in basic training when the Twin Towers were hit and so I joined with a thought maybe I'll go to Kosovo, maybe I'll do a Korea, I don't know be out.

Speaker 3: 5:28

And then I was in buddy, eight class, and the drill sergeants came in, said privates were going to war and you know my perception of what my obligation to the United States government would be into the people who changed and flipped out at night, you know. And so from that moment, just everything just changed in basic training, the concept, that feel there seemed to be more like the sense of realness to it. It's hard to describe because you're based right, you don't know anything, but looking back on it, things just changed. And maybe it was the leadership took it more seriously, or maybe, as trainees, took it more seriously too. And then you know, I think multiple deployments to Iraq hones and shapes your perception of leadership too, because you know we can talk about inspiring people in the workplace, but those leadership results or lack of results would have a clear impact if you made a home or didn't make home right.

Speaker 2: 6:24

Yeah, so we always, when we were doing training exercises like NTC rotations, especially when I was an OCT, there was a distinct difference between units that were going to go overseas and actually go to war after like a culminating event at the brigade level, and those that were not. And in my mind, I think what you just said, kind of going back and hitting that point again, is this because there was an actual training event that they were leading up an actual real world scenario, so people took it much more serious because their lives at the end of the day, were going to be online, like, hey, I'm actually going to war after this, so we need to learn and train like we fight. We always say it. I think a lot of times we don't actually do it.

Speaker 3: 7:12

Well, I mean, it's human nature, right? Because we go through this process of going to three, four training rotations and there's nothing ever at the end of it. And so I think it's really hard for junior soldiers to be the perception like we're training again. Here we go, what's the point of it? And so I think the army is trying to become more strategic of maybe you're not deploying to a security mission in Iraq or somewhere else, but are you going to a polling rotation? Are you going to a year of quotation? Is there a big training mission and the you know some of one of the AORs that's tied to that rotation? Because there always needs to be something to reinforce you, right? It's the same thing, right? My kid will get bored if I go out and throw the football with him day after day and he never has that game on Saturday, right? And so I think it's how do I reinforce that training? And we have to make sure we align it with actually execution too.

Speaker 2: 8:10

So you joined before 9-11 and I joined 9-11 happened when I was in high school, so that was one of the distinct reasons that I joined and chose to serve. But what led you to that point to serve before, like why did you want to join the army?

Speaker 3: 8:25

Yeah, I mean, you know this is going to sound cliche, but I was looking for a sense of purpose. I mean, I love it. I was going to go to college. I had, you know, college acceptance letters and it just it wasn't scratching that itch. And I went to a job fair, college fair, some buddies who were going and, as I'm walking through, an army recruiter, a young corporal I didn't know what that rank was the time but walked up to me and says you look like you get through basic training and I felt like at that moment there was a challenge issued and I just had to explore it right. And I think that sense of purpose is what kept me in the army for so long.

Speaker 2: 9:06

So when you first joined you got out of basic training, what were some of the distinct challenges that you kind of had to face adapting to that new world. I know at least for me I'll never forget going through basic training and I was private McMillian not the, I guess how my dad would say the sharpest tool in the shed right and so I learned a lot through pain and I remember my drill sergeant always telling me all right, mcmillian, you're going to learn today it's either going to be through pain or repetition. So you choose, and I usually always chose pain. I did a lot of pushups. That's why I'm so strong now.

Speaker 3: 9:39

You know it's funny after I finished OSSA and then went to airborne school and reported my first airborne assignment, I didn't know what I was given to, right? I mean, you join the army and you're going to, you're going to base training. Your recruiter tells you all these half truths let's put it that way, right? And then the drill sergeants, you know, prepare you for what it is. But you get to the unit and that's when the true learning happens, right, like it's like, okay, hey, you got a crash course in this and you get there, and I think I got to my first unit. I was the first file and I had that on a fourpulc. Oh, you're in Geronimo. I was in Geronimo, yeah, and I actually, you know we'll get to that minute.

Speaker 3: 10:23

But you know, I got there and I didn't know I still don't know what a soldier was, I didn't know what we did. You know what I mean. And so I got there and Sergeant Reyes was my first team leader. He not only inspired me, but he struck fear of me too. You know, and you know, just every single day was you know he? Did you meet the standard? If not, we're going to correct you to the standard and there may be a little trauma there, but there's also a lot of a lot of learning, right, and a lot of thankfulness and things that still apply to this day, right. You know sign note I also deployed with the 509th and 04 to Iraq, so we're the only time we ever deployed the 509th, so pretty cool time to be there.

Speaker 2: 11:05

I can't remember his name now to say my life, but he was my Sergeant Major in Task Force two when I was an OCT over there and he was in the 509th and deployed with them in 2004. Kind of, going through that, I'm going to see if I can find that his name. He retired as a command Sergeant Major in 80 seconds. So I guarantee you you probably know, know who that that guy is. But there's something that you said that I kind of want to make sure that we hit, and I think there's a different way to kind of meet it.

Speaker 2: 11:32

But in the military, especially back in that time, there's a standard and that we have to maintain that standard. So we have the responsibility is the way I kind of see it is the before, the fact to do what we're supposed to do to the level and the competence that that we should. But then when we don't, then we need to be held accountable and there's there's a distinct way of how the military, I think, holds people accountable and how the civilian sector holds people accountable. But maybe kind of, you know, walk me through that of how. How is the difference between holding people accountable in the military versus the private sector?

Speaker 3: 12:09

Yeah, that's a great question and I think the first thing before we even talk about that is is the standard clear, right? Like I think so many times we get into automatically hey, let's hold something accountable, and us as leaders, it's on us not the, not the soldier or not the employee to make sure that, hey, this standard is fair, transparent and it's clearly communicated right. And I think, if we get that right I don't know if all the times we have to hold someone accountable right I think a lot of times there's misconceptions, misunderstanding or just wasn't understanding of, maybe more importantly, the why behind the standard right, like if we can get that right, like now, there's a sense of understanding of, hey, well, why are we enforcing this rule, this standard right? And look in the army, like there's a lot of correction methods, a lot of ways we can with full pay, we can with full time, we can, you know, hold someone accountable in the report and this is done in the sector. It's very different, right. What I've seen in my 14 months of being a consultant firm is, you know, there are methods to help people accountable, you know, whether it's just a great relationship with your performance manager and having a conversation, and they go down the road and what's called a performance improvement plan, right, and so compare that to be given a counseling statement from your first line leader in the army, and they give you corrective actions. At this point, if these corrective actions are made, we'll follow up with you. Know, further action.

Speaker 3: 13:42

Same thing, the civilian sector. Hey, here's the performance improvement plan, here's where you're at, here's what you're missing and here's the steps we're going to take in 60 days to get you where you need, right, and so it's a very like hey, it should be a very collaborative process too, right, like Clinton, josh, or working together. How are we going to get you to this goal line? Right, and so I think that's the way it is. And the difference is is that in the civilian sector, the loyalty is to the financial compensation first, and then it's the connections in the workplace, right, where's the army? It's my connection to the organization, to my livelihood, and then money is after that, and so it's kind of an error. So therefore, I have to tangibly tie it to hey, this is tied to you still having a job, also, right, so very different.

Speaker 2: 14:38

I always think and I have a guest on Ivy Marsh and he kind of defined the standard is the bare minimum in your organization just to do well, but as a leader we always need to be above the bar, above the standard. And I agree with you 100%, as I think oftentimes as a leader, especially maybe at that more junior NCO rank, that people believe that hey, this was clearly communicated to you. You're not doing what we said to do but it's not clearly communicated. People don't understand the reason that we're doing it.

Speaker 2: 15:12

And I remember being a young platoon leader we were doing two to three missions a day and it got to the point of where the guys it was just going through the motions and then when we do that, complacency begins to breed and set in and then that's dangerous, especially on a battlefield. But to me understanding the why, having a clear task and a purpose, and then what that desired in state, is because if we can connect in my mind, the head, the heart and the hands, then we're going to have true purpose and we're actually going to be able to make a difference. But yeah, I love that. I want to make sure that we kind of sit on that. This is the leader. Explain the why. Give a clear task and a purpose and then a desired in state, and then unleash chaos. Let your team go and just achieve the mission Well you know and I think about in the consulting framework.

Speaker 3: 16:00

Now, right, and we're saying, hey, what is the desired in state? Right, like this is what we're trying to get to right. And I think if we can paint that picture, we can show that full kind of the continuum of right. Hey, here's the standard, here's what we're going to do and here's what we want to get accomplished right. And so I think that's powerful because you can say this and then maybe someone in your team can think about an even better ending or better solution that we could get to right.

Speaker 3: 16:27

And so, bringing that soldier or bringing that employee along the journey right, having them be a part of the collaborative process, we maybe that most times they're smarter than we are right. So if we have a conversation, we're going to get even even better results right. Versus just saying, hey, do it because I said so. Right, like hey, that's, this is what that's. When I do the army, it was just do it because I said so. I'm like I don't know why I'm doing this, but Sergeant so and so told me to go do this. I'm like we do this. And now it's like, hey, this is what we're trying to get, you know, and I can like, hey, we can do better than that, and now that I know what you're trying to get to right, so I think it's a collaborative piece. That, I think, is the greatest element we can have.

Speaker 2: 17:13

Yeah, we talk about not being the smartest in the room and now that I work in acquisitions, so I'm still an infantry officer by trade. But now I'm an acquisition officer and I have the privilege to work with some of the most amazing people in the world, like MIT, lincoln Labs, all these different national laboratories, some of the most brilliant people that I've ever met, and when I'm talking to them I have to like I'm from West Virginia, rural West Virginia, and I'm an infantry officer by trade. So you're just going to need to simplify your talk and bring it down to my level. But it's funny because we're not the smartest people in the room, we're just always.

Speaker 2: 17:53

Kind of go back to the metaphor, if you ever I'm sure you probably are a fan of Megadeth, but Symphony of Destruction, right, like our job is to take the chaos and make it in a purposeful beam and then continue to move kind of forward. So I did. I love that. But walk me through, you think, your first deployment you were probably a very young soldier and then you continue to mature and I know you did multiple deployments. But what were some of those challenges at? You know, an early rank within the military as you continue to deploy. How did those challenges kind of change for you?

Speaker 3: 18:29

Yeah, I mean I had three deployments to Iraq, so my first one was 04. So I could deploy it as a specialist and became Sergeant on their first deployment, oh wow. And you know, when we deployed from the 509th, you know I grew up as a calf scout, you know, kind of in the armor formation, always on the light side of things. But I was transferred to Bravo Company, the first 509th, and now I was in the infantry company right as a rifleman, you stepped up in the room.

Speaker 2: 19:00

I just joking. I'm messing with you.

Speaker 3: 19:02

I don't know. I mean, like, look, iq level definitely went down when I got there. Yeah, 100%. But but, holy smokes, it talks about transcendent leadership, right? It didn't matter that I wasn't a level Bravo. Leadership leads across all formations and all across all people, right? And so, like 100%, I was just going to get there and do me right. I was going to be a good soldier. I was going to support my NCOs and see where I could add value right Now. I didn't know it at the time, but that's what I was doing, right? That's what I've continued to do the rest of my career. But I got there and, hey, how do I show up, how do I do good work and how do I create value? I think the difference is, you know, there's nobody had a playbook back in early 2004 of what deployment looked like.

Speaker 3: 19:50

I mean even the guys who did the Thunder Run in Iraq. There was a completely different deployment than the rest of the plunders we had, right. So kind of that old four, we're kind of figuring out what they looked like. And leadership as a young I mean I turned 21 in my first deployment in Iraq, right, that's how young I was. I mean, here I am as a now a Sergeant, as a team leader, an infantry company that I'm not infantry trying to make my way, you know, and so I don't want to say a lot of bumps and bruises. But after your first firefight or after your first mortar attack or ID, you realize the learning curve. It's got to be fast, you have to learn, you have to ask questions and you have to get it right. And I think that kind of went over so rapidly.

Speaker 3: 20:36

I found myself. I was 04-05,. I found myself back in Iraq at 6-7 for just three days short of a 16-month deployment with 82nd Now I was promoted to Staff Sergeant. The month of deployment, right before we left, I got promoted to Staff Sergeant. Now, hey, I went from a team leader to a year later on in charge of a malignant cavalry squadron and then charge the entire section right, and so you know, I think I turned right before that deployment.

Speaker 3: 21:01

I turned 23 or 23, you know 23, right? So it's like talking about life there today is like we were only trying to do our best, like here we are going down range, you're in charge of more soldiers' lives and you haven't had even a chance for reflection, right? Like, hey, what did I do? Right, and I think that's one of the biggest things I've missed is like when do I stop and give my? You know, have that conversation with myself.

Speaker 3: 21:27

And that deployment changed who I am forever, because it was, I mean, a terrible 15 months. You know just the things we saw, the things being encountered. And then that was at the end of 07, and then I found myself as a Sergeant, 1st Class and 10-11, taking up the tomb down range and coming back and completely different. At that point too, that was my first time out of an Airborne Unit and a Strike Reunit. And so just a completely different context. And yet again, leadership transcends a formation, that transcends that operating environment. How do I show up, how do I do a good work and how do I become value-added?

Speaker 2: 22:02

Two things there that I think need to be restated. And number one is kind of like an imposter syndrome right that we have when we come into a new organization. And I will tell you and I was just joking with you before that the cavalry is just as qualified when it comes to maneuver tactics, if not more qualified, because you guys are really the subject matter experts when it comes to long range reconnaissance and surveillance. And reconnaissance and surveillance, especially in like, where I'm working right now, is critical to maneuver. It is either going to drive success or not. It doesn't matter if we know the playbooks on how to maneuver soldiers on the battlefield to achieve those effects. If we don't know what is on the battlefield before we get there to achieve those effects, then we're never going to be able to do it. But I love how you had that curious, committed, coachable mindset. I kind of call it the three Cs of just coming in understanding. Hey, I know that I don't have the title of an infantryman, but I'm going to come in and I'm going to figure out a way to add value to the organization and I think that that can be applied to any job or skill set, Regardless of what it is is that I know that I'm not the subject matter expert, but I know I have a steep learning courage to overcome. So I need to ask powerful questions, I need to move to people with influence, I need to learn from them and then I need to apply it as quickly as possible. So I absolutely love that.

Speaker 2: 23:30

And then the other thing that you talked about in the Army is horrible at this is reflection time. It's one job after another, after another, after another after another, and I remember you know I'm in now 16 years, which is crazy to me to think that I've been for 16 years. Dude, I'm getting old. But I have been in a leadership position every year as an officer. Basically, you switch out every year until you get to that rank of field grade and then that's where you kind of stay in a position for like two to three years.

Speaker 2: 23:59

But I never had time to really reflect on, hey, you know, who am I as an individual and as a leader and what kind of values do I want to emulate, kind of going through it. And I know there was a clear kind of formula, because I have always done very well in leadership, but I didn't confine who I was or how I could work on those strengths and weaknesses. Until you know, we went through that coaching class together. You know two roads leadership through the Army. That changed my life, man.

Speaker 2: 24:26

Like sitting down and really reflecting on who I wanted to be as a leader, both professionally and personally, for myself, for my family, for the organization, for this country, and then I can make decisions at a much more clear place. Like it takes the fog out of leadership when you know who you are. And I'm curious of how do we as an organization, as an Army, get better at that to give senior leaders, especially junior leaders, more mentorship in the terms of that type of reflection? Because I know we do AARs, we do hot washes, but there has to be a better way, especially at that junior rank, and kind of building that maturity as we grow.

Speaker 3: 25:10

Yeah, I mean, you know, let's just flip it on its head for a minute right, the officer construct UPCS. They go to school, the Craton Career Course, upcs to ILE, you know UPCC or CVSC right. And then you're going to PCS, to the War Colleges in 06, right. So there are eight assignments. There's fellowships right, I didn't have a single staff assignment. I didn't have a single ROTC assignment. I didn't go on drill or start recruiting. I had operational unit after operational unit. My first one was to ACRC. I joined in 01. My first non-operational assignment was in 2013. I had 12 years consecutive operational units, deployable units. I went after a KD complete, it's our first class and I got there and I made the masternate list and they made me the brigade first sergeant, so I didn't even get an assignment break. The brigade first sergeant yeah, right to the brigade first sergeant, congratulations. Right, Like, go cut your teeth and I say this because we don't set up the construct for the enlisted side either to have a developmental break, pause and think about it, right, but the old saying is you know, good work is rewarded with more work.

Speaker 3: 26:31

Right, 100%. And so like, well, hey, you're my horse, I'm going to keep riding into the finish line. And then I wonder, if we build this process of hey, we need to set it up so there is even an opportunity. Who would it be for reflection in the first place? Right, because most times it's we have a mission, we have a task, we have a goal. And you kind of talk about the junior NCO, the junior, you know noncom. Yeah, I wonder if you know there's got to be a maturity aspect to it also, right, if my kids say, hey, dad, we want to eat ice cream for dinner, it's my job as the dad to be like that's not a good idea.

Speaker 3: 27:16

We're not eating ice cream for dinner, you know. And so we're in the cultural standpoint right now where our kids or our soldiers think they know better than we do all the time right.

Speaker 3: 27:26

And there's this deference, of lack of deference, of like, hey, dad, you're in your 40s, you know what's best for me. We'll eat this and maybe have ice cream for dessert. Right, it applies to our soldiers and our young sergeants and staff sergeants. There's this cultural difference of I know better because I saw on the internet, social media, whatever therefore the power of the senior NCO or company or field grade officer, I think it's diminished some, right? So we have to work harder to earn that trust and that confidence to say, hey, this is the best thing for you, right? So I think, before we even get this reflection building this piece, we've got to establish confidence, and trust that they want to come to us and ask us this question, because there are a thousand answers out there on the axis of just a little phone before they would even come to us with something about reflection, right? And so it's critical.

Speaker 3: 28:23

I think the army is getting better, right? Yeah, you know they're piloting. You know, from school houses I can come with kind of here's what I need to work on at the school house and they should come to my next unit now, should transfer with me. So we're baking in time when that soldier, you know they go to basically their course. The soldier comes back to me with hey, this is what me and my candidate worked on, this is what I they think I can work on, and I think that's powerful, trying to connect that we have a long way to develop, kind of this reflection piece and how we even you know it starts with yourself. Right, if we're not building reflection time, how am I going to ask somebody else to have reflection time?

Speaker 2: 28:59

All right, team. Let's take a quick break from this podcast and I want to personally invite you to our private Facebook community that I call Purposeful Accountable Leaders, or PALS, and PALS is a community dedicated to inspiring and developing servant leaders by sharing transformational stories and skills. Exactly what tells the leadership is all about my goal is to build a community of like-minded leaders that can share lessons, learn, ask questions and celebrate wins when it happens.

Speaker 2: 29:28

And my mission in life is clear I will end toxic leadership by sharing transformational stories and skills, and you will find countless transformational leaders in this group. Many of them I have had the honor to serve with in the military. If you want to find a community that can help you grow both personally and professionally, we would love to have you. You can simply search Purposeful Accountable Leaders on Facebook or click the Leadership Resources tab in the show notes to join. I am looking forward to seeing you guys and continuing to grow together on our leadership journey. Back to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 30:03

Yeah, I always go back to one of the leaders that I had, you know, Captain McKenzie, and this was when I was a brand new, well, coming back as a brand new executive officer. Really he had a concept of, you know, white space. To me it was a game changer because I was very new in the military, I just got back from Afghanistan. It was go go, go, go, go, go, go, do more, with less type mindset, but he wanted to fill the calendar up with white space. You know, you could be NCO time, hip, hip pocket training, which is just really the opportunity to allow the non-commissioned officer corps to train their, their soldiers. But that was kind of illuminating from the standpoint that when we develop white space on our calendars deliberately, it gives us that time for reflection.

Speaker 2: 30:56

But I feel like in the military there's a joke at the Pentagon that the army, specifically, if you drop a bunch of army officers off on a deserted island like Castaway, within 15 minutes we'll have a 24 hour guard shift and we'll have a roaming patrol around the island and no one's going to get any sleep. So it just just doesn't matter. That's kind of like our mentality is that we have to be doing something, because if we're just sitting there and not doing something, then we kind of feel like we're not being as proactive as possible. But you said something else that I love and I would love to hear your wisdom on it. How do you earn trust and I think that's one of the hardest things to do from an unauthentic perspective. If you're authentic and you just genuinely care about people and you make decisions for the organization and not yourself, and you're selfless not selfish it's easy to build trust. But from your perspective, how do you build trust?

Speaker 3: 31:55

Yeah, I mean, let's put disclaimer. You used the word wisdom in me, so I don't know if that goes hand in hand. Right, let's just have this claim, or first, people watching this. That's a long bridge to cross. So, you know, I want to talk about in the context of me now being a civilian sector. Right, Like you know who we talked about in a posture room that I could speak an hour on that, right. But trust, you know how do I or how do I, earn trust in my consulting firm we're about 14 months, right, and I'm being vulnerable is where you start at Like earning trust and vulnerable right.

Speaker 3: 32:33

Every time I facilitate a workshop I talk to the stakeholder I share about myself. I was in Boston two weeks ago facilitating a workshop for a four-step open company and when I did my about slide and I put it up there, you know I had to earn trust right then before we facilitate for the next two days or I'm not going to get the participants to really dive in. I put pictures of my kids up there, I put pictures of the house we built up there, I put pictures of my wife and I told stories that were from my heart of who. I am right and I think building trust starts with making that connection with somebody and it's that vulnerable. I remember as a young sergeant not knowing a dang thing about my first sergeant. I didn't know a single thing about my sergeant major right, and I flip that in my head today. You know, as when I retired as a command sergeant major, it was my. I mean, I did NCOPT, I was present. I was always sharing things about my mistakes but my failures and I think being vulnerable is how we create trust. Now you have to follow it up with. You know your word right, like, hey, I said I'm going to do X, I said I'm going to do Y and I follow through that. And if I couldn't do X or Y, then Z is the explanation.

Speaker 3: 33:52

I think, right, like, hey, I tried to do this, this is with the outcome, but here's what we're going to do, right, but being vulnerable, this telling somebody hey, I don't have all the answers, or it's hey, we're going to work through this together. You know, and I think a lot of times, just having them all on, I'm saying, you know, like I put my pants on one leg at a time, just like you do, right. So we, we put that CEO, we put that Sergeant Major, that general on this pedestal like, oh my gosh, they're general, right, millie or George, you know they just took over, right. Like they put their pants on. The same way we do too, right? You know, it's just still a different at that level, and so I think it's been vulnerable and sharing that story. So you know, it's kind of my perspective on it.

Speaker 2: 34:34

Yeah, I love that and there was one of the best books that I've read so far and I'm going to kind of try to create a journal series on this too of how leaders can be vulnerable and I think, from a standpoint that that is what separates, you know, good leaders from extraordinary, that that just a little bit extra, that ability to be more authentic from a standpoint of, hey, sharing vulnerable stories, showing that, hey, you have a chink in your armor, that you are not the subject matter expert, you do not have all the answers, you do have faults and you do get things wrong. Because leadership is chaotic. The leadership role in itself is, is going to be, very unpopular, but I feel a lot of, especially nowadays, people want to either be popular or they want to make the popular decisions because they want to chase more of a popularity, because they think that that makes them a successful leader, versus making the unpopular decisions for the goodness of the organization which puts them in the kind of that unpopular spot. But in my mind I genuinely believe that that is being, you know, extremely vulnerable and kind of explaining it from the standpoint is that, hey, team, I know that, that this would be a much easier life for us if we do this, but we need to think about it from a long term perspective and this is what we need to do, but sharing those touch points with your family and some of the stories that made you who you are today, and just having candid conversations.

Speaker 2: 36:03

I remember when I was a company commander, I would always try to do the rule of three every week, talk to three soldiers that I didn't know for like 15 minutes, and usually it was like really, really awkward Because I was like, hey, here's this company commander talking to like this private, and this private is like okay, he has an agenda, he's trying to like get me like see what I did over the weekend, or something like that. But it was never from this standpoint. It was that, hey, just genuinely tell me about yourself, man, I'll tell you this like I'm from Roy, west Virginia, my dad used to make moonshine. He may or may not still make moonshine. I can't confirm or deny that fact. So, like something like that. And then it just opens up because humor, especially humor, kind of disarms, and that's what I've, what I've learned from from that standpoint.

Speaker 2: 36:49

And then you said another thing that I just absolutely love. You can say all the right things, you can come in and have the best you know command philosophy in the world, but if your deeds don't align with your words it doesn't mean anything. So I always had a. A Gabelstone operator or a soft operator was a battalion commander, for one of the live fires we did and he told me this and it still resonates to the day is deeds, not words. Your deeds have to be aligned with your words. But if you just say stuff and never follow through, I think you're never going to be able to to establish trust. But I would love to kind of get now into, like your Sergeant Major time. So, moving through that, the ranks of noncommissioned officer, you achieve the pinnacle of the rank of Sergeant Major. I don't think you got to Command Sergeant Major, but it doesn't matter because that is like a significant milestone that a lot of people never hit. That is a huge achievement. And how did your leadership have to mature when you got to more strategic rank?

Speaker 3: 37:53

Well, I actually retired as the Command Sergeant Major for 214 CAV at a scope of very small so, um, yeah, so I, you know, I graduated the Sergeant Major's Academy at 2019.

Speaker 3: 38:04

And I went right to 191 CAV in the 173rd, auburn, germany, right, like dream assignment. I'll go be in the herd. And you know, the one of the biggest things they told us at the Academy was the moment you put a star on your chest. I don't know if you've been a Sergeant Major for a day or for 10 years, right, and so, talking about this level of expectation, the moment you get there, well, I got to 191 CAV. My dream assignment wanted to go to 173rd as a young paratrooper my entire career, and the sitting CSM was activated to take a garrison. So he gave me a high five and two days later he was at the door and the next replacement wasn't coming in to 110 days from SFAM. And so here I am with the new snow and freshness from the Sergeant Major's Academy, the new Clarksville on me, and you know, my battalion commander in 05 looked to me as the CSM for the first almost four months of me getting there. And talk about just getting your, your face, blown back with like, am I good enough? Is this imposter number? I have the, the actions that hadn't been in airplane, yet for several years at this point, been a lot of striker assignments. And so, hey, how do I show up? And it was the same thing. Lean into what you're good at, be value added and not. You know, what I noticed was there was a bit of a cultural turnaround needed to happen. And how do I lean into that perspective of being not a man of the people but being present, right? Hey, how am I going to show up? How am I going to have a positive attitude? The biggest things that stuck with me is I want to be where conditions are terrible with a smile on my face If it's raining, if it's a bad training exercise that we're just docked. You know we're on kind of troop live fires, two live fires. I'd be out there with a smile on my face at three in the morning with my face paint on my night vision. All right, like I just have a smile on my face and I will be talking to people on. You know that goes a long way, right? And so from there, you know, I believe that doors open when they're supposed to and doors closed when they're supposed to.

Speaker 3: 40:15

We got back from a huge live fire and you know, my battalion commander another CS in the time call me in the office and said, hey, sit down. I'm like huh, this can't be good. Like hey, division is pointing to be the G three star major. I'm like what I mean? This is just mind blowing of a one star command. And they said you've made a name for yourself, we're going to pull you up to seventh Army training command and you're going to end up being G three star meter.

Speaker 3: 40:41

So you know, I had to take my room, break off and put a PC back on and cried some silent tears to myself and wouldn't have the game. And, mind you, I had never been a staff, non commission officer. This is my first time and let's go do it at a division level element. And I was like talking about it yet again. Here we are learning curve and posture room how do I add value? That's being present and I think my company now has this manifest of be humble but smart enough to have an ego right and be smarter to know that you are good, and that's one of our manifestors. That I think is very powerful. I'm going to be humble, but you got to also know that you are confident. At this point, you know that you can do good work. It's just let me figure out how to do good work.

Speaker 3: 41:29

So I found myself and seventh Army training command graphing very Germany when COVID hit right. And now all of a sudden you had all these tenant brigades are important to you. And hey, sir major, how do we get our soldiers to airborne school? How do we get our soldiers to Ranger school? Go figure it out, right. And I was like, okay, I'm just making phone calls, right.

Speaker 3: 41:52

And when I would call from the phone and I would call the maneuver center of excellence hey, I need to get solders housed. It wasn't like what? You've only been a star major, you're still fracked right now. I would call on the phone like, hey, I'm sorry, major keely, seventh arm and training command, g3, star major, I'm trying to get through this problem. And I found that, no, nobody cared how long you've been a star major, nobody care that you're a fracked, they care about your competency. Right, they carried it. Could you have a conversation, were you competent in your craft and what you're doing?

Speaker 3: 42:21

And we got people in Kobe, we get them on, you know, clean flights from Germany back to American weekend ranger school, right. And so I kind of had myself in the back of, hey, how do we do this in this tough environment? And I kind of backpedal. When I was in one-on-one cab I was selected for CSL, for a 214 cab in the school for barracks, hawaii, and I was like, oh my goodness, I'm gonna go from Germany to O'Connor's, o'connor's. And so that was always kind of during the rest of my time in Germany was this thought of what do I want to be as a commands or major? What is my kind of philosophy? What do I think about that's important. So we wrapped up a 15 month stand in Germany like I'm so fast and furious with PCS to school for barracks Hawaii and you know it is the best, best assignment of my career.

Speaker 3: 43:15

I think just to having a phenomenal leaders. Obviously you're next to the greatest beach in the world right, the beaches in the world. That kind of helps your assignment to. I think sometimes, and just from day one, it was Leadership for the presence. Right, it's just.

Speaker 3: 43:29

You know, I tell people all time let's have Presence with a purpose, right, don't just show up to a training exercise or show up to the cubicle in the cough or at work for no reason. Right, let's have a presence with a purpose right and I think that goes a long way. And whatever we do today is do I have to go in for a meeting? You know, am I going to go into work just to go to work except there, or am I gonna be there with the purpose right? So, kind of culminated my time there, I found myself Medically retired a year into the assignment and transitioned to the civilian sector, and that's another conversation from the day. But you know, for that one year of my time there it was probably the most enjoyable time of my 21 years of making impact with soldiers. And you know, just really seen, really seen development from the not commissioned officer level, which I played a big hand and Dude, that's First of all.

Speaker 2: 44:23

I'm sorry. I should have done more research. I didn't know that you made it to the rank of command. Sorry, Mitch, I take everything back that I said before and that truly is a humbling man. Like that is the highest rank that you can make as a non-commissioned officer in the army. So just kind of like reflecting on that. Everyone's listening now. So go back to where Clint said he didn't have any wisdom. Listen to everything that this man says, because he does. But did I love that? Leadership with a presence, presence with a purpose.

Speaker 2: 44:53

Then it all just goes back to don't do stuff, just to go do stuff and be busy. And if you ever read the book traction, I always think of this metaphor of a ball tire spinning in the mud. You can look busy and you can just be doing stuff all day long and just be burning yourself out, but you're not taking purposeful action, meaning that you're not gaining traction and you can't gain momentum and you can't move forward. You have to be able to gain traction and the only way you do that is by taking purposeful action. And I remember in the military I used to be so frustrating when, when I was enlisted, before Unpacking connexes, packing them back in, unpacking connexes, packing them back in. And then we're out there for all day at the motor pole and I'm thinking like why are we doing this? Like it is insane. I still don't know why we did it, but anyway, like it.

Speaker 3: 45:45

I have no idea. It would like hey, go down everything out, like we just did yesterday. Why are we laying everything out again? Oh yeah, I just I feel like back in the air of the army. It was just to keep us busy like this. Like like God forbid we let you go home, god forbid we let you do something. It was like I don't know what to do with you. I don't have some training going on. Go and load the connex. I'd like what? Okay, we'll lay it out again, like it was spent all day. The multiple. I think so. If you look, if you find out, josh, hit me up. Let me know why we would do that all you long.

Speaker 2: 46:23

Well, my goal now is to create a robot that unpacks connexes and some in acquisitions now, so no soldier ever again is going to have to go through that pain in the motor pool that we went through.

Speaker 3: 46:33

I think we tell them be said about you know, we develop character through some of those painful things too, right? So yeah, we gotta provide opportunities for those painful growth moments as well.

Speaker 2: 46:45

So you know, transitioning from the army into the civilian leadership and I've had the pleasure to have a lot of leaders on here that have made that transition and we talked about how leadership is different but maybe kind of just hitting that again. You get out fresh. You know, reaching the pinnacle of your career in the army. You know 20 plus years of that world. You get into the civilian sector. Where was that your direction and your kind of motivation? What was your plan and what were some of the challenges that you had to face and navigating that?

Speaker 3: 47:19

Yeah, you know, we talked a minute ago about being vulnerable, right, and I'm transparent to a fault. My wife will say right. So I mean God bless her for putting up with me. You know I've had PTSD for years. I've had, you know, some of my issues nightmare asleep, not going to concentrate and stuff. I didn't have those issues and I finally dealt with a lot of them as a commonser.

Speaker 3: 47:40

I figured I couldn't tell soldiers to go get mental health, get help, and I wasn't doing it right. I was finding myself drinking a little more frequently, doing things that weren't as healthy to relieve my issues, right. So I started getting health and found myself with a lot more baggage than I thought I had, right. So I found myself in a med board. Actually, not what I intended, not how I focused now the army, and that's kind of what happened. The best thing that's ever happened in my life is going to the medical evaluation board. But I was found fit for, you know, not fit for duty. I found inner myself in a med board in March and that July I was on terminal week.

Speaker 3: 48:22

I didn't have, I didn't have this long runway to say, hey, I'm gonna figure out the next chapter of my life. I didn't have this, you know, two-year launch window to retirement. How do I become a leader? How do I become Whatever I want to do next? Right, it was Clint year. It's time to get out and find a job.

Speaker 3: 48:42

And so I think I started scouring LinkedIn, like I think everyone's told to do, and start looking for jobs. I landed with this amazing consulting from consulting, who took a chance on me. Right, they took a chance on me, they, you know, it was very stringent, very hard interview process and I landed with them and I've been there 14 months and I tell you, when we talk about what's the difference in leadership, I really think propeller has some great situational leadership. When I joined the firm for the six month, the first six months, my performance manager that's what we kind of call your, you know, your directors are performance managers, right, they, they have, you know, three to five, three to seven consultants underneath them and they're managed them Either on a weekly, bi-weekly, where you have one-on-ones and kind of those conversations.

Speaker 3: 49:30

Then you see them, obviously in the work streams, right, but like that's what it's, just dedicated your development. You know weekly or bi-weekly, and you know my first six months, a man, brett, shout out to your buddy. He was every bit of leader I needed at that point when I joined the firm. He was and here's, a dependent. His dad was retired, um, colonel. He was a dentist and so he understood the PCS is the strain, and he was the social connection to the civilian side of the firm that he helped me develop. He wasn't concerned about hey, clint, is your PowerPoint Great? Is your Excel great? That's not what I needed at that moment. What I needed, or someone help me bridge that gap between being an illicit Sergeant, major right, and then to now being a soldier, right, and so talk about Situational leadership. He saw what I needed at that time and that's the leadership he provided. After the first six months, I switched over to a great PM named Henry, and Henry was developmental. I mean, henry was All right, let's clean it the work now. Right, we need to fix this, we need to fix this. And I tell you what is a 30? When I was 39, I had Henry and Josh. It was refreshing to be developed again.

Speaker 3: 50:47

At a certain way, the army kind of stops developing you and it is now You're charged to develop others, right, and and I found myself being unclosened this park, when he's be fixed, this needs to be fixed, you can fix this. And at first I was like, oh my gosh. And then it was let me be humble, yep, I can always get better because there are a lot of smart people outside of the army, right, and so I learned a lot. And now I'm on my third performance manager kind of switches with clients and I Tell you, like situational leadership, what I needed it when I first went to firm is not what I needed during my half part, and now I have a new performance manager who is providing what I need now, and so there's good, great leaders outside of the army. You know it. Just it looks a little different I, so I'll pause there.

Speaker 2: 51:37

One of the most impureating things to me is not getting developed and I remember when I was a lieutenant, the rank of lieutenant it's like probably like four or five years somewhere around that, from second lieutenant to first lieutenant. I think I was canceled one time, just that entire right. That is probably the most important Rank for a junior officer because it's molding you into that company grade officer. And there's a in the military and there's two training ranks Second lieutenant and then a major field grade officer. I have yet to be canceled as a major, except for one time when I first came in by a great leader who ended up to be retired. But that is a theme that I see is that it's kind of like a hustle culture in a way. But in the military, is that Military? Is that At the detriment to growing individuals? We want to grow our careers and we want to grow the organization to get those results, because we have a scarcity mindset if we don't achieve those results, because we're only in a position for such a short period of time that we're never going to continue to raise that ladder. So we become so focused on that and we forget about the people.

Speaker 2: 52:48

And I used to take it a point of pride to do quarterly discussions with my lieutenants and clearly tell them like, hey, if you want to top block OER, this is what you have to do, this is what I expect. And then go through the quarter. Did you do these? No, you need to get better at these things. And this is where I rack and stack you.

Speaker 2: 53:11

And I remember having one of my lieutenants I won't say his name, he took a fence to it at the time. He's like oh, how dare you tell me that? But afterwards, when he worked at HHC for a scalp platoon leader, he came back and he was like sir is refreshing having that, because I clearly understood where I was with you. I knew what I needed to work on. No one takes the time to do that anymore, so it's being kind, being unkind sometimes, but you can do that in a way where it's constructive candor and Kim Scott has a really good book, radical candor. I think it's called it's behind me, yeah, yeah, and that is a science and an art in itself. And I agree with you the military lack of a better term sucks at that.

Speaker 2: 53:52

Yeah but this is way better.

Speaker 3: 53:54

Two great points kind of tied to this. And yeah, I remember, how was it anything? First time at Fort Lewis and it was time for my OER and I mean I was rushing it and I was selected to take the division right and so I'm leaving to take the first and my squad commander the time rated me so I think HHT next, and said we're the number two out of six first starts in the squad. I was. I was offensive right, because nowhere along this process had I ever been counsel of where I ranked right second. I went as often I said I don't agree with this. Yeah, you tell me why I'm two out of six. And what, more importantly, what do I need to be number one? It wasn't about the rank and time is I wanted to be the best but no one has told me what I need to do.

Speaker 3: 54:45

And the Lieutenant Colonel squad commander who ended up being a brigade commander just recently retired, great guy, so well, it's more of a gut feeling. Talk about just feeling, of just like worthlessness I had over, you know, so fast forward. You know, after my time in HHT was taking division company, I got my OER into our counseling with him and he said thank you for that conversation. He said you made me that night go back and sit down reflective am I developing people? And I should always tie, hey, how how am I measuring? And then, how do I set goals for that? I'm measuring to become better, right, and so I think it's, it's critical, like we can assess people. How will we want to assess people? But we do the disservice when we say we don't provide a way to get better, right, and that's that's leadership, right? Hey, we want everyone to be their best potential and become the that, that untapped potential. We want to delve into that, right. And so I think that's on our own honest, to like, hey, this is where I see you right now, here's how we get better, right, and that's that's where we grow.

Speaker 3: 55:58

You know the second thing you know, when I think it kind of ties back to that developmental thing, I think I'll attend a colonel, it stops. You know you're supposed to be poorly counseled by a general officer and there's just not time. We talk about lack of white space, right, like I used to have a commonsormator who told me is like I am more impressive leaders who take things off of calendars, and he should always say that then you're not going to find a lick of white space on a general officer's calendar. Maybe even fort Thursdays, from today you'll find a 15 minute gap, right. Well, how is this general officer supposed to coach, teach, mentor these battalion commanders? What every other year at a lot, at a training event, like you know how to hear?

Speaker 3: 56:45

The construct is silly, right, and it's almost like here's our leadership model, here's our developmental model. But it only applies to staff sergeants and sergeants, and it only applies to soldiers and lieutenants, right, and maybe trooper, company battery commanders, right. If you get a good tank commander who's truly invested I've seen that who takes it serious, you might see it. If a brigade commander is passionate about field grade development, you might see it there. But after oh, four is stops, I do not think they're developed coach, because it's kind of like what you're expected to know, and I think it is the biggest load of crap. The army has one thing we do it like I don't know a single battalion commander who doesn't want to be developed. I don't know a single sergeant major who doesn't want to be developed. Right, like the all crave to be developed and get better. All right, team.

Speaker 2: 57:38

Let's take a quick break from this episode and I want to share a leadership resource with you, and that is the resiliency based leadership program. Rblp's vision is to create a worldwide community of practice committed to building and leading resilient teams. So why do you need to build and lead a resilient team? Resilient teams are the key to individual and organizational growth, regardless of being in the military or in the civilian workforce. Building collective teams is a key to building a resilient team and the team's ability to overcome adversity, adapt and, most importantly, grow. And in bottom line, up front, resilient teams are just stronger together. And here's the fact 99% of the people who take that course recommended to others, and I'm one of them. I would just completed my certification and I highly recommend this. And the great news is it's most likely for the people who are in the military or in the civilian workforce. And if you want to learn more, you can look in the show notes for this episode and find the link and use the discount code J-M-C-M-I-L-L-I-O-N, and that is also in the show notes.

Speaker 2: 58:40

Back to the episode. I love that word crave, because that's where my mind went is like I have a thirsting to always continue to grow, and you and I probably share the same thing. It's like. I'm going right now through the resiliency based leadership program training and I had to postpone my testing just because, where I work for a so called more complicated training, now, time is crazy. It's funny when you're in Boston I was in Boston, I was up at MIT I have this ability to where, okay, you're not going to coach me, you're not going to mentor me, I'll grow myself, and but there's I think there's a danger there too, because I could come lopsided in one area because I'm passionate about leadership. So I think that's where I'm going to go. I'm going to grow myself, and I think there's a danger there too, because I could come lopsided in one area because I'm passionate about leadership. So I tend to gravitate towards that type of training and certifications.

Speaker 2: 59:37

And if someone doesn't stretch me and that's a key word there, I think, being able to stretch me outside of my comfort zone then I'm never potentially going to grow into the leader I could be. So that's why it's critical, if anyone's listening and you're in the management role, find a way to create white space on your calendar and then find a way to coach, train and mentor OCT your team members, because it's going to pay dividends, because our legacy as a leader isn't what we've done. It's the leaders that we build when we leave, and that that's the test. That's the test of leadership in my mind. Dropping fire. I love it. So kind of train, I have so many questions, man, and we're already an hour. It's funny how fast these go.

Speaker 3: 1:00:21

Oh man send it what do you got?

Speaker 2: 1:00:23

So one of the one of the biggest questions that I have is, you know, going through the military and being able to have all this authority and responsibility with you, especially in the civilian sector. Now I'm really curious how you're able and I hate the word balance but how could you have found harmony between work, family, self in the military and how's that different now in the civilian sector? And what advice would you be able to give to people in the military to have that type of harmony or fulfillment? Because I feel like too often it's seasonal, extremely seasonal. It's straight military, no family, no self, or it's you know. You go on leave for two weeks, all family, no self, go back to work. How did you strike that balance going through your career?

Speaker 3: 1:01:13

Yeah, unpopular opinion. Here we go. It doesn't exist in the army. The army is a cultural that, the culture that expects you and needs you to run to a bunker, knock it out, right, there's no like I can pause. Well, sergeant, I don't know like, this is what we have to do, right, and so it's an all encompassing thing, and I love my wife. I've been with her for 20 or 21 years, married 20, but the army came first and I hate that. I say that, but there's no other way it works. Right now you have to figure out some kind of harmony I love that word so much more than balance, because they'll never be bounced right, but maybe it's kind of tilting and is this way, and the next time it's this way and what you hope is, over the span of a couple weeks or a month, kind of get the more balanced right, more, more harmony, harmonious. I don't think it's ever going to be possible unless we caught that.

Speaker 3: 1:02:20

We start that culture of can I plug at night, right, can I create boundaries? But the inherent problem is I have a soldier who go, gets, gets a DUI, gets misconduct. The leader has to go and take care of that situation. What? Why can't I deal with a DUI until eight in the morning tomorrow. Why can't I put boundaries? Why can't we deal with it the next day? Like does it make that big of a difference in the moment? I don't know. I don't say that I had the answer to that, but to where I am in the civilian sector. The most powerful thing I did for my marriage and my family, josh, was turn my phone off at night. I go to bed, it's on silent, and people might say I'm kind of rude when I say this. I don't know, but if someone, my family, dies, I'll find out about it tomorrow. There's nothing I can do. At two in the morning. We're not making a funeral arrangements, we're not making travel, like like I'll find out that when I wake up to go to the gym at five and more, right, that's what I'll do. And so by being able to put my phone on silent, if I am done working for the day and I put it by my coffee maker, I'm present, holy smokes. Right, and I think we can do a better job as leaders in the army of like, stop texting people, leave them alone. You know me, like at one at one point, the warren phones. And if you didn't get the work done during the day. Guess what? It didn't happen to the next day, right, and so I think we have to provide space for our soldiers, our employees, to just unplug.

Speaker 3: 1:03:54

I'm going to go on I'm actually headed back up to Boston next week and make and take my family with us to have a little trip, and the most powerful thing I'm going to do is and believe my laptop at home. I'm going to disable my outlook, I'm going to disable my slack notifications while I'm on the trip. I'm going to plug 100%. I'm not not that I don't care about what's happening, but I'm going to be more present with my family, right, and so I think we have to do that, and it's it's, it's been unnerving for my wife at times to, because I am around so much more. We have to redefine what with a couple. We are as a couple now, right, like yeah, you know, I found myself with all this time my hands like, hey, what, what, what do we do together? Now I'm here, I'm, you know, and that's an adjustment in itself to, but I'm thankful for that opportunity that I made it out From 20 years of, 20 years of service with my family attack, right, and so, for those young, I got to tell this quick story as PFC.

Speaker 3: 1:04:56

It was December of oh too, and I'm getting married on block leave. Talk about a PFC thing to do. I'm getting married on Christmas block leave, right, and I was walking at the gym game demo workout and so major service in the 509 short little firecracker. So major, hey, private, come talk to me. And I went down what are you doing? Leave, and like this back in the two. He's asking me.

Speaker 3: 1:05:24

When I was only so cool and I think about this, right, I saw major on my prayer rest I'm getting married. And he said sit down with me. And we sit down on a bench in the gym and he wanted to let me know that. He, it's going to be hard. You need to have this conversation with your, your soon to be a wife, and when you are there, how can you be present? Yeah, I didn't realize how impactful this was at 19 and I'm about to get married to my wife, right, and there was a leader who was immoral with me, who was sharing this story and giving me this kind of hey. Here's a hard lesson, here's what I learned and here's how you can be better. Man, crazy that I think about this on this day that he took a time and space To talk to a private first class he's a command sarmator and he gave me some nuggets that Helped me the entire, my entire marriage of the apartment.

Speaker 2: 1:06:23

So you and I similar story. I had two days between iBalloch and Ranger school so I thought it'd be a genius idea to go home and get married. So go get married between iBalloch and Ranger school 48 hours. Fly there, get married, come back.

Speaker 2: 1:06:39

You have to do it now or it's not gonna happen, right Like yeah, in our mind we, you know we had we had to do it now and I end up spending 90 days in Ranger school. Yeah, I extended, says this is so much fun. I decided to redo Florida all over again and that was devastating to my wife. We didn't have a conversation. She quit her nursing job, thinking in 60 days after guaranteed I'm gonna graduate, she's gonna move up and live with us, phoenix City, alabama, through a whole wrinkle in the the plan that was step one of chaos caused by the military. Step two I get to JBLM and we're deploying within two weeks and short but funny story, the first week I'm there they're doing a platoon leader training course and they take all the platoon leaders out, or soon to be platoon leaders, and they go through this, like you know, crucible 72 hour event. I did not tell my wife, no one told me that. I should probably tell my wife. She thinks that I deploy.

Speaker 2: 1:07:35

Oh, she goes to the brigade command suite, finds the brigade command chaplain and is just like she does. She had no idea, she didn't even know. She walked into our brigade and starts crying Hysterically, thinking that you know I deployed. No one told her all these things because we didn't. You know, I was horrible at the time of being a husband, that Of understanding, setting boundaries and communicating my battalion commander after I do this really awesome lane, I crushed it, like I'm getting the platoon. He walks up to me and he's like Josh, she tell your wife where you are right now. I'm thinking I was like, yeah, I think I did. I was like, well, she thinks you're in Afghanistan. She may or may not be crying in front of the brigade commander and the brigade commands are major. This is two days in to being a little tenant and I'm like I looked at him. It's like I'm not getting a platoon now. I was not right now. Yeah, you need a little. I was like, okay, but it's just kind of.

Speaker 2: 1:08:29

Having that boundary is Important and understanding that type of relationship with, with your wife and your family is critical. Especially Some of the hardest transitions points is when I came back from you know deployments, because there's a. There's a pattern, there's a level of routine that's set and you're coming in, you're in, you're just creating chaos. And 20 years in the military, 20 plus years in the military you come back and Now how do we live together? Again, right, like how do we continue to grow and how do we set boundaries? So I applaud you for that man.

Speaker 2: 1:09:01

It's hard to set boundaries, and for me too, because I have a deep passion of trying to show people another way to be successful in leadership. You know, be vulnerable with you and a sacrifice to my family. Sometimes. Sometimes I may have to miss a soccer game to record a podcast, but I have those conversations now with my kids and my family and I try to explain to why, like this is what daddy's trying to do. I'm trying to make you know the world a better place. I'm trying to grow better leaders. So one day, when you wear the uniform, if you choose to do that, maybe someone has heard something that I say and they are a better leader for it and you deserve a better quality leader. So kind of painting that picture. So, dude, thank you. Thank you for that. Hopefully you got to kick out of that story.

Speaker 3: 1:09:46

Yeah the last question did the munga die. I love it. Man Did the munga die.

Speaker 2: 1:09:51

Last question before we get to the final show segment. So what if you had to give a piece of advice to someone who is just kind of joining in the military right now, because I love kind of reconnecting it back to your journey. What would it be? Because you were able to maintain a very successful career and mature, I think, through that personally and professionally. What would your advice be to someone just starting out?

Speaker 3: 1:10:15

I mean, it's tough, right, don't be afraid to ask questions, right, I think so many times were either overwhelmed, were Embarrassed, maybe of kind of like not looking like the smartest person, right, I think asking questions is the key to success, right? Like, obviously, there's a time not to ask questions, right, it's probably in a live-fire range or sitting boards, that range. But these questions, right, like you know, I don't want to say challenge your leader, but you, you're a deserved leadership. All this, alright, and so Ask those questions, figure out the why and be respectful in this question. But I mean, I think back to all my great leaders who gave me great information. A lot of times it's because I asked a hard question yeah, what, what, what is the purpose this? Why aren't we doing this? And I continue to do that, and my consulting firm is, you know, like man, because I feel like I'm a brand new private sometimes in my firm, like I'm, I'm starting again, right, and so I think, asking questions to whatever career, starting off with is.

Speaker 3: 1:11:19

That's what makes you successful. I have those hard conversations ask the questions Because you know, I have this big kind of saying lead your, lead your boss to victory. Maybe sometimes they haven't thought about this or this, this answer right. And now that you're asking the question You're giving them time and space to think about, improve, make an answer right, or you're giving the chance to work through the problem set right. So I think a lot of times asking questions now it helps you, it helps your leader. I mean, it's just, it's the most powerful thing we can do as an individual.

Speaker 1: 1:11:53

It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same Four questions that I ask every guest on the tales of leadership podcast Be brief, be brilliant, be present and be gone.

Speaker 2: 1:12:10

Question one what do you believe separates a good leader from an extraordinary leader?

Speaker 3: 1:12:15

I truly think that the what separates, that Is the vulnerability. I mean that, is it vulnerable? Or somebody it's going to make you the greatest in the world?

Speaker 2: 1:12:26

Question two what is one resource that you could recommend to our listeners to kind of grow their leadership capacity?

Speaker 3: 1:12:30

I mean I've changed it for me and you to rose leadership, dr J R Eider, check them out. I mean, change my perspective on leadership. Yeah, hands down.

Speaker 2: 1:12:45

So question three if you could go back in time and give yourself some advice, what would it be? Slow down?

Speaker 3: 1:12:53

Everything's not a race. I was so Hell bent on being promoted to staff service, our first class, the first certain. Like, learn your trade, learn your craft, like, become good at what you do. Um, before you get promoted.

Speaker 2: 1:13:08

All right. Last question how can our listeners find you? And then, how can they add value to you?

Speaker 3: 1:13:13

Yeah, um, find me on LinkedIn, clink keely. Uh, it's too easy to find me there. I'm posting at least twice a week, adding value. Just Enjoy yourself. Whatever you're doing, have fun doing it right. Like. I think our Recruiting problems in the army be solved by soldiers who enjoy what they do. If we have a good time and we're posting about a public we're talking about to our friends and our family, we'll kind of get this recruiting retention problem kind of right it right. So have fun. If you're a soldier, have fun, jump out of airplanes, blow things up right. Have a good time, right, um, and then if you're in the private sector and or you're going through a transition, reach out to me. I love to give back to veterans. Talk about what I learned, what I feel, that, what I Kind of, where I think I'm winning, that. So, um, let me know.

Speaker 2: 1:14:00

Clint, it has been awesome to have you. Thank you for the flexibility. I know that I've been wanting to have you on the podcast for a long time, but we just we're in the middle of a move, but I'm glad that we're able to actually make this happen. All right, team, it's time for our after action review. That was an amazing episode with Clint. So what are the top three takeaways that you should have from this episode? I think the first one I'll label this one adding value.

Speaker 2: 1:14:29

And it's really awesome to bring on leaders like Clint that have went through multiple different career fields. He's spent 20 plus years in the military and now he is working as a professional consultant. He's still growing, he's still learning and he still has this mindset of hey, I'm coming to a team, I don't know what I'm doing, I may or may not have imposter syndrome, so how can I add value to the organization? And when you have that type of mentality of understanding, I want to go to An organization, I want to add value to it, stay coach will, stay curious and stay committed, you can begin to overcome imposter syndrome, and we do that by asking powerful questions, moving to people who have influence and then doing Taking action, purposeful action, but from the mindset that we're trying to add value to the team and to the organization, not ourselves. Remember Selfless, not selfish service.

Speaker 2: 1:15:29

The next key takeaway and I love this quote and this just may be one of the key takeaways leadership with a presence, presence with a purpose. Never do something just to be doing something. Everything you do in life, either for yourself, for your family, for your organization, it doesn't matter Needs to be on purpose, purposeful action, because if you don't have purposeful action, you're just doing stuff, to do stuff and to be busy, which will lead to burnout. Your goal is to take purposeful action and continue to move forward. And guess what, if you don't have to be doing something, take it off your calendar and then spend time reflecting on who you are. And that is the third key takeaway.

Speaker 2: 1:16:16

As you grow in your leadership journey, you have to To reflect on your leadership spend and here's a rule of a hundred, and I just recently learned it and I love it 18 minutes a day. Spend 18 minutes a day reflecting on how the day went on on your leadership journey. Do that for one year or a hundred hours. At the end of that one year or a hundred hours, you'll be 95 better in that one area of your life. So let's focus on doing a leadership challenge. For a single year it's been 18 minutes every single day of Learning and discovering who you are.

Speaker 2: 1:16:53

It's kind of what I did. This is where and why I'm at where I'm at right now is because I went through a leadership coaching training After 15 plus years in the military. I had the experience, I had the wisdom. I've already led Thousands of men and women. I've won prestigious leadership awards, but I didn't know who I was because I didn't have time to reflect on that. So reflect on who you are, because then it begins to separate the fog of war and allows you to make clear, decisive Decisions.

Speaker 2: 1:17:23

Hey guys, do me a favor. If you like, tells the leadership podcast. You like the content that I'm bringing to you guys. Share this podcast with someone who is a leader, a leader of their family, a leader of a team, a leader of themselves. And remember leadership starts with ourselves. So we are all leaders. This is relevant and pertinent information that can help you grow on your leadership journey.

Speaker 2: 1:17:46

Number two Make sure you give this a five star review. Whatever platform or whatever way that you can leave a review. Make sure you're leaving a review for this podcast because it really helps me grow and extend my message to reach other people. And then, number three, support the show. You can find this on Tells a leadership forward, slash buzz sprout. Or you can go to mcmillianleadershipcoachingcom and you can see all the different content that I have for you guys. So the easiest way to do it is to go to mcmillianleadershipcoachingcom and see all the different blogs and the podcast episodes that I have and then just support the show. And, as always, thank you so much for just Just listening to this podcast and I hope, and that I pray, that the wisdoms and clint brought you Can help you in your leadership journey. As always, I am your host, josh mcmillian, saying every day is a gift, don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.