#44 Trevor Muzzy - Air Force Officer, Pilot, & Servant Leader

Trevor is a Christ-follower, active duty Air Force officer/pilot, husband, father, real estate investor, and Younglife leader. With over two years of knowing Trevor, I can attest that he is an inspiring young leader with a servant's heart. He embodies purposeful accountability and is driven by his pursuit of freedom and fulfilling his God-given purpose. Trevor is a true PAL (Purposeful Accountable Leader). His time is dedicated to family, his military career, growing his business, and ministry.

👉🏽How to Contact Him/Her: 

• Real Estate Business: https://reliantblog.com/ 
• Military Ministry: https://linktr.ee/thunderinglegion 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thundering.legion/  
• Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thundering-legion/id1619458404 

🫡 My Why: I’ve seen the cost of poor leadership — how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in the worst cases, lead to lives lost, including through suicide. That’s why I’ve committed my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actionable insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons.

👉🏽Leadership Resources: https://linktr.ee/talesofleadership

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Every day is a gift, don't waste yours!
- Joshua K. McMillion

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

You're listening to the Tell the Leadership Podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to becoming a more purposeful and accountable leader, what I like to call how. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership. Welcome back to Tell the Leadership. I am your host, Josh McMillian, the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching and an active duty Army officer with over 16 years of leadership experience. And I am on a mission to create more purposeful and accountable leaders. My vision is to positively affect 1 million lives in the next 10 years by sharing transformational leadership skills and practices. With today's episode, I'm going to be interviewing a good friend of mine, Trevor Muzzy. Trevor is a follower of Christ, an active duty Air Force A-10 pilot, a father, a husband, a real estate investor, part of the Young Life Leaders Ministry Service, and currently spends most of his time between either family, military career, his growing business in ministry. So as always, make sure you stick to the end, and I'll provide you the top three takeaways from this episode. Let's go ahead and bring on Trevor. Trevor, welcome to TALS a Leadership Podcast, brother. How are you doing? I'm great. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, man. So I think before we begin, uh always like to start off with you know who who you are. But you know, Trevor and I actually know each other. Um, we're part of a veteran-only mastermind group that is focused on kind of like real estate and entrepreneurship. And so Trevor and I spend every Sunday together about an hour with goal setting and planning, not just our lives, but also with with our um with our business and our passion. So it's it's always an honor to have to have a discussion with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Keep it going. So start off with uh the first question I love. So you're an Air Force pilot, A-10 pilot. How do you define leadership?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Uh I define leadership as using your time, your treasures, and your talents to influence those around you.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Time, treasures, and talents. Where'd you get that at? I love that.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Um, I'm not sure if I I think that was actually from like a sermon series or something, uh, just talking about like those are the things that we have to invest in this life and how you use them makes an impact to those around you.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I do I love I I love that. Um, I'm always adding acronyms to my Arsenal, so now I have the three Ts that I could add. Two T's Arsenal. So yeah, look quickly, you know, take the time to define who you are to our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, so uh I'd say right now I I spend the majority of my life uh between my family. Uh I've got my wife, my daughter, uh, and just building our our family on faith. Uh my career uh in the Air Force takes up a good amount of my time, and then uh building aside real estate business and then also uh involved in uh some ministry aspects as well. So we try to meld those all together into one cohesive picture, uh, but it's always a giant balancing act.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

So yeah. Um but and that's one thing that you know I've that you and I I think share in common, but you're way better at it uh than me is having one communications with your wife for like you know, goal setting like where where you want to be, but also being extremely deliberate with it. I remember you know on the Sunday mastermind group that we had, you kind of you and I talked about like our diets and you shared your your fitness plan with me. And it kind of blew me away from the four steps that you had and how detailed you were with it. So that that's a superpower that you have. And I'd love to kind of dig into what where where did that come from? How did you learn to goal set like that, especially in certain areas of your life?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Oh, that's funny. I haven't really thought too much about where that developed. Um, I would say one of the or I guess a couple of formative experiences going way back for me was uh I was a wrestler in high school, and I think that really uh helped shape my like mental fortitude, uh, just with all the difficulties and stuff you're going through with practice and like cutting weight and you know failure, all that sort of thing. Uh and then high school, I also grew up in an entrepreneurial family, and I uh bought a mowing business from my brother. I had kind of just been like mowing lawns here and there, but then he went off to college and had built this business that I bought from him. Uh so I started mowing like 20 lawns or something in high school and had like the truck, zero turn, all that kind of stuff. And so I was like a one-man shop doing everything in the business. So I was doing like marketing, uh repairs, doing the work, invoicing, advertising, all that stuff. Um, and I think that that really uh was a cool experience because I got to see all aspects of business and that when you're an entrepreneur, you really own the outcome, like whether it's a success or a failure, like it just rests on your shoulders. Um I think that just really motivated me just to continue to grow and progress. And then that that kind of was the end of my high school phase, and that led into you know, I was looking for something to do. My parents were like, hey, I want you to get a degree. Um, and I wanted to go into the military, which kind of led me into uh the Air Force Academy. I did not get in the first time because I uh uh didn't have the test scores and and that sort of thing to get in. So was able to go to prep school and uh do that that whole process a year later. But yeah, just it continued to develop and I was very into the uh the kind of the self-help, all those kind of books and the motivational speaking and all that sort of thing. So I honestly I credit that with like a lot of the tools and tactics and stuff that I employ in my goal setting, but I think that's also been kind of uh uh I think that's changed a little bit in my motivations just as I've gotten married and I've grown my faith and uh have family now.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, I think that that's kind of like a perfect segue, and you hinted at some of those things too. But you know, where where did your leadership journey start and begin?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah, and kind of tying back to that time frame, I'd say really those those last years of high school were pretty pivotal time frame for me because that's when I became a Christian between my sophomore and junior year of high school and then my junior year is when I really started to pursue the military. Um, and that's kind of led you know, this this narrative of the rest of my life where I've really been trying to uh figure out what it looks like to faithfully live out my faith, but also do that in a military setting. Um, especially, you know, as a as an A-10 pilot, you know, the opportunity and option to potentially be called to combat and uh potentially take a life and be really thinking through those things on a on a philosophical basis and uh thinking about living that out faithfully each day, uh it's a challenge, but it's also I think just something that's really uh grown me uh in my faith and then also kind of helped me to stand firm uh throughout different phases of life in the military.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

So the struggle between your your job, I'm writing this down, and then kind of your your faith walk. So I think you and I kind of share the same thing. So I'm an infantry officer by trade. Literally, if you had to like put a resume out, you know, on like um jobs.com or something like that, hey, looking for an infantry officer, seek with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver. That's literally the the definition. And you know, I I had that struggle too, you know, being being in Afghanistan, taking soldiers in harm's way, but also taking taking lives, because at the end of the day, you know, what we do is not purdy, it's not sexy. That's that's that's what we do. How yeah, how how did you learn to connect those two and and work through that?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah, that's that's been an ongoing uh an ongoing thing that I just continue to to think about and wrestle with. And and I think that's the important thing is that we do wrestle with it every day, you know. Uh it's something that we're constantly trying to balance. Uh, we you know, you read in Romans about how the government is, you know, they bear the sword for a reason. Uh that's a that's a a power that's been put in place by God to enforce discipline. Um, and then for me, uh to reconcile that, like I'm a Christian. I I know that I'm a child of the kingdom uh of God, but I'm also a citizen of the United States of America and I'm a agent of the government of the United States. So uh how I've come to kind of think about it is like I have a chain of command, uh, you know, it goes all the way up through my wing, up to the Pentagon, up to the United States of America, to, and you know, above America, you have United Nations, and above that like sits God. And uh, if anybody lower on the chain of command does something outside of the uh the bounds of somebody higher on the chain of command, they're out of line. So I always try to just think about that in whatever I'm being asked to do. I have to be able to be like, hey, is this in line with like the with Christ who's number one in my chain of command? And and uh can I answer for whatever I'm doing? Um and that might at times require me to say no or require me to say, hey guys, let's let's think about this a different way. Um but knowing where our ultimate authority lies and who we're gonna ultimately report to based on whatever decisions. Um and I know that there's really gray areas in combat where you're you're like, man, I don't know if I have to make an instantaneous decision, and it's just uh a walk in by faith and you know all the experiences and everything you've done up to that point in forming that that current uh situation and making the best decision you can.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah, I love that. I think I always talk about like your true north, right? So, like what is your true north, your compass, your core values that kind of guide your decisions? Because I think as a leader, you have to have your core values set in stone. They have to be submitted because when you run into you know challenging issues with that, and I'll share two stories just from my experience. You have to be able to quickly make decisions, filter what you're taking in the environment, and then be able to make decisions that are taking you towards your true north, not deviating from that path. Now, one story that I have is you know, we just got done with a firefight uh in southern Afghanistan, and maybe 10 minutes after that, we had someone bring up an attractor, a wounded, you know, military-age male. He said he got shot by in the uh the Taliban while they were fleeing. But you know, we we did the the spagle testing on his fingers, he had fire residue on his fingers. We knew that this was a guy probably shooting at us. You know, a lesser person at that time could have held resentment and grudge, but I was like, absolutely give him the same level of care that I would give one of my soldiers. Um show compassion, right? And like and the second story, um, you know, that the that I have from uh Afghanistan. I'm trying to remember when we were doing a month-long mission, it was during Ramadan, the middle of fighting season. You know, this was right during the the holy Muslim faith of where they fast for you know a month, they only eat late at night and in the morning. So I was really assimilating with my company because we were out there with it. We had to we had to fight with them. One of these firefights that we got into, and I'll I'll still remember this to the day, is that you know, as they were fleeing, because we won, obviously, that they were picking up children and using them as shields because they knew, and that's really where like my faith kind of started to cement. They knew that our moral compass almost refused to allow us to return fire. So they knew that you know, as Americans, they have a different more morality than than what we do. And and uh absolutely every single person in my platoon, to include the 82nd company that was attached to me, never engaged. As soon as they picked up the children and you know, started to use them as a as a as a shield. So that that's powerful, and it's funny too, because you and I share the same thing, two different paths. Being an A10 pilot, you're like a brother from another mother as the infantry guy. We love our A10 pilots. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

That's that's what we always talk about. You know, we we train for the guy on the ground. Um that's what's unique about our community. And um, and then yeah, kind of uh just kind of piggybacking off that, uh, it just kind of was making me think of uh whenever I was stationed in Korea, and when when you're there in South Korea, you look to the north and you see a very clear enemy, and wrestling with okay, uh let's say war kicks off and we have North Korean tanks start rolling south and I gotta do my job. Like, you know, I think for me, I'm gonna do that because I know I need to protect the people who they're who they're uh aggressively attacking. However, I'd always do that with like sorrow in my heart and always just prayer, just man, I'm sad that it had to come to this, but I have to do my job and I have to uh enforce justice through the means that God has given me. So uh that's something I had to wrestle with on uh on a regular basis there. And but I I haven't deployed in in combat, and so a lot of this is theoretical, whereas you are you've you've been there and done it. So I mean, I think your perspective is so valuable.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah, I'm trying to find a quote. I I don't know if I'll be able to find it right now, but it's a it's a a quote essentially talking about uh the the the world, think of it in a room, right? Like as a Christmas tree. And I this is one of the reasons I love Christmas. The world's covered by darkness. And you know, in the beacon, uh, you could be a light on a heel. And then it in essence, that's that's what I think that a leader is, is that they bring light into whatever room or whatever role that they they bring. And I think in combat, it's even more important to have a leader that brings light into those situations because if if we didn't, then it would be such an ugly thing that no one would want to be a part of it. So um, yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

And I'll show you this photo photo here. This is uh the Korean peninsula from space, so you can see South Korea, North Korea. You can Google this as well. Um just satellite picture of the Korean peninsula, but you can see that North Korea is just utter blackness, and South Korea is lit up like a football stadium. So I've flown on that border, I've looked into North Korea under night vision goggles, into the darkness, and I've looked to the south. I've seen the the light of South Korea, and it's amazing just to be there and see like what a difference we made in the Korean War, and that legacy continues to grow, you know, as more and more Koreans are are born into freedom. And like that was just a heavy responsibility to protect that. Um, but you know, when you talk about light and darkness, like man, I can't think of anything in the world that I've seen that that's illustrated that better than me. I mean, North Korea to me is just utter darkness. Uh all those people are in utter darkness, but because of the the work we did there in protecting the southern portion of the peninsula, we you know were able to prevent people from being swallowed up by that. And and I mean, looking at Seoul at night, man, it's like it's like a football stadium. It's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah, I love that. And I found that quote. So Matthew uh chapter five, verse 14, you are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. And it in essence, that's kind of the whole philosophy I have as a leader is I'm gonna bring my light wherever I go. Yeah, I love that. So, okay, so kind of continuing. You you mentioned something earlier, and I'm really interested in it. You you applied for Air Force Academy, but you had over a year of not getting accepted the first time and reapplying to it. Kind of walk me through okay, so a lot of people when they get confronted with a challenge like that, they're gonna pivot or even quit. But what what kept you to drive through that challenge and then push forward?

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, that's it's actually funny. My my parents, I was talking to them a week or two ago, and they're like, Yeah, you're the kind of kid who would just like fall over and smack your face on something and like get up and just keep going. Yeah, um, that's just I guess that's maybe how how I was as a kid, but uh, I've always just been a really per persistent person. And somebody tells me I can't do something, like I'm gonna go do it. And so maybe that's how it was. I was like, I'm I'm making this happen. So yeah, getting that letter of rejection after I'd you know done all the work, all the applications, got an appointment from my uh congressman, all that sort of thing, and then getting the letter like, hey, better luck next year. I was like, man, all my life, all my life dreams are shattered. Uh thankfully I had a another letter come a couple weeks later, and it's like, hey, uh, you can come to prep school and come with the next class. So I was like, okay, let's let's do it. That was a great opportunity and a great opportunity to mature and grow. So that way by the time I actually got to to basic, you know, I think I was more prepared maturity-wise for the the challenges that were coming my way. Um and then I think that also carried me all the way through uh once I graduated from the academy and went to pilot training. Um what I realized there is that the academic setting, which is very controlled, like, hey, you do all these assignments, like you're gonna get a good going to get a good grade kind of thing. Um, just put in the work. That wasn't really so much the case when I got out of the academy and I was I was actually in pilot training. Like you can put in all the work and you go out and fly that day and you just screw it up. Like, and so it's performance-based. So I hit some some major uh speed bumps there with with evaluations while I was in pilot training, almost washed out. It's so that was really, really challenging to see some of my my friends, some of my other guys in my class who were just breezing through. Yeah, I didn't think they were working nearly as hard as I was, and uh, and they were just getting it, and I was not, and I was getting, you know, uh failing check rides, that sort of thing. But really, in all those circumstances, I think that it really just goes back to knowing like what your core identity is and uh not letting the the outcomes like determine who you are. So it's not like hey, I failed, therefore I'm a failure. Like my identity doesn't change, like my identity is in Christ no matter what. So, you know, even even after those times where you whether it's a wrestling match and you you get pinned and you're laying there on the mat just defeated, or you don't get into the academy, or you hook a check right or whatever, and you're just like so defeated, you're like, even in this circumstance, like my identity hasn't changed. Like, God still loves me. Um, got Jesus still died on the cross to save me. So like I gotta get up and keep moving forward. That's that's all I can do.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of like my motto, and you're probably tired of me saying this, but you know, every day is a gift, don't waste yours. And I always think about like some of the worst days that I've ever had. Some of the times like literally like sleeping in a swamp for a day at a time, or like just doing some crazy things. And okay, like for check ride, for example, like, okay, I failed this test, but is it going to prevent me from succeeding? No. Today's still a good day. I learned what can I learn from this, and then continue to improve. So in the army, we have a kind of I call it like a fail loop, right? So you you do you plan, you do, you fail, you do an AAR, you learn, and you do it again. And it it's a the I don't know if the Air Force has that same process, but that's everything in life, is what I'm learning is everything is a feedback. You you're never going to learn something the first time you try. You're you're going to fail. That is inevitable. Unless, unless you're doing something that's not worth trying, you're you're probably going to fail. Um, and even those people that you saw that were just absolutely crushing it, I guarantee you in some of those instances that they were struggling. I remember going through ranger school, I crushed everything up till um Florida phase. And then Florida phase, I just had one bad day. One bad day I recycled, and then everyone else that you know had a much harder time than me, you know, it was able to graduate, they moved on. I was there for another 45 days, and I could have you know let my heart start to harden, hold resentment towards people, but I looked at it as a learning opportunity. Okay, I I have to be here for another 45 days, I have to get my ranger tab because I can't take a platoon in an infantry unit is kind of like a rite of passage unless I have my my ranger tab. So, how can I use this situation for my benefit, learn from my mistakes, and then help and add value to the next platoon that's coming in? That's the way I kind of looked at it. But I think it's the same thing for yourself. You have to realize, okay, you know, I I I failed this. How can I improve and then try it again? That's I love that.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah, and I I also see that as a father, you know, my daughter's like in the phase where she's just learned to walk and you know, wants to run way faster than she's able to, and she's like always falling over, but uh she's not really deterred. She just keeps getting up and learning. And if every time she fell over, she just was like, Oh, I'm a failure, and just mopes around in it, like she's not gonna continue to learn, like she has to keep just learning, like, oh. Okay, I stepped off this thing and I fell. Like, therefore, I should just like be more careful when I'm out like close to an edge, you know. We just keep learning and growing.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yeah. Yeah, I I write that as like unreasonable too. So part of my my leadership philosophy, I call it like a my house of leadership by J.R. Flatter. He kind of created this metamor um uh a metaphorical home, you know, base foundation of what your leadership philosophy is, four walls, the principles that go into it, and then kind of your roof. One one of the principles that go in my uh house of leadership is being unreasonable. And I think with yourself, you know, being unreasonable and willing to say no, but also kind of going back to what we were talking about before, being unreasonable to allow the environment to change who you are and stand up when you know something is wrong. And I always kind of go back to the point of being a purposeful, accountable leader. Well, part of being a purposeful accountable leader, a pal is being unreasonable. Like I want people on my team that are willing to say, hey sir, that's wrong, or hey sir, there's a better way of doing it, or hey sir, we should try it this way, or just blindly saying, Yeah, let's let's do that.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

And I think I think that shows trust in the organization as well that like if they do fail, they're not gonna be reamed uh and call a failure. They're like, okay, we're gonna we're gonna be willing to say when something's too much, or uh be able to come to you with our concerns, uh, and so there's that open feedback loop.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah. So kind of starting off in your informative years and up to now, I'd love to know like who who's helped you along the way? Who have you looked up to, and kind of how has that helped shape your leadership philosophy?

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yeah, I'd say like uh my big things, like I mentioned, uh wrestling went in high school, had a great wrestling coach who's actually uh young life leader as well. He was actually uh pretty instrumental in uh helping to plant seeds that eventually brought me to Christ. Uh that's awesome. I'd say, and then you know, getting into the Air Force. Um I'd just really say that just like the one thing that's been consistent throughout my whole faith journey is just uh my faith and faith communities. And I've had so many great leaders, you know, military or otherwise, who have just come alongside me uh various phases of life. And I can just think of so many people who have uh just been great mentors to me, uh encouraged me, you know, helped me overcome failure, and uh just were supportive during those those years.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah. I think that that that's critical too, is um I same as you is like I could point people out throughout my leadership journey based on each each end like each life, each season of life that I was in. And I've taken the lessons from those people and have them added to my leadership philosophy. But another important thing, at least with me, and I'm interested if it's happened with you, there's been also terrible leaders. I have had absolutely horrible leaders, but I've learned so much from horrible leaders because I I put on my OCT hat. So I was uh observer coach trainer at Fort Polk, uh, Louisiana. We would bring rotational units in and we would train them, coach them, uh, and then observe them and let them go off to do great things for the country. But I would put on my OCT hat when I had a horrible leader. I would just sit there, observe, and watch and listen, and see how other people interact with them, see how the organization operated under them. And then really what I was learning on of what not to do. So some of the most important wisdom points that I've ever had were from horrible leaders. Great leaders all have generally the same thing in common. You know, they're positive, they have the ability to look into the future, they have the ability to give everyone a voice, everyone treated with dignity and respect. They're usually rad, meaning, you know, they have routines, they're accountable, they hold people to a discipline. But with what I like to call transitional leaders, it's kind of like a luck-of-the-draw wild card. They're selfish, they make decisions based on their own personal gain. Uh, and I've learned so much from them, especially watching how other people interact with them of what not to do. Have have you encountered that in the Air Force at all?

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Yeah, um, I've got this one experience here in my brain that's just like sticking out to me so clear right now. And I I used to think that, uh yeah, you know, leaders are just kind of leaders in name only. Like they probably can't influence an organization that much until this experience where uh we had a very transitional leader uh in a particular organization I was involved in. And uh there was a lot of other factors. I mean, we were in the sequester sequestration times and other stuff was going on, but uh nonetheless, we had a transitional leader that was not really unifying this organization, and there's just a lot of gossip, a lot of negativity. People were just not motivated. Um, and then same exact group of people were there. This leader left, another leader comes in, and I would say has a lot more transformational leadership uh characteristics, really kind of started to get people motivated, built a built a uh community of trust, uh, was had a lot of people were able to go to him with concerns, that sort of thing. So I saw that that very same group of people under a different leader, just the culture totally changed, and people actually enjoyed being in that organization. Um, and it kind of informs what some of one of my beliefs about leadership is that as a leader, especially in a in a bureaucratic organization, I don't think you have that much upside because you have the rules, you have the prior culture that's there, like you kind of step into a transitional role maybe for a couple years or whatever, like you're probably not gonna change like the entire organization or but like I think you can really change the culture and you can have a positive effect in that way, which you know it has a degree of influence, but I think you can have a huge impact as a negative leader, like like multiple times, like so you can be a terrible leader and just destroy an organization. Um, so I think leaders have a huge downside potential and you know a marginal upside potential, but that obviously that shouldn't deter us from going into an organization and being that transformational leader.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Team, I want to take a quick break from this episode and personally invite you to join our tribe. Are you looking for a community of leaders? If you are a leader at any level, join our purposeful accountable leaders private Facebook or LinkedIn group. We would love to have you at the table. My mission is to create a community that allows leaders to ask questions, celebrate with, and share lessons. All I ask is that you follow the field. Be respectful, be humble, be present, and add value to the find the link in the show notes to either join the Facebook or LinkedIn group or simply just search purposeful, accountable data. Back to the podcast. I absolutely love that. And I'm actually, you know, uh, because it was one of my uh weekly to-do lists, is I'm writing a blog series right now, I call it TNT. So, you know, what are the top 10 transitional habits and what are the top 10 transformational habits of leaders that I've seen that have done poorly? But you said something that is absolutely so true. It's it's hard to be a transformational leader. And it takes time, but at the end of the day, it's all about relationships. Transformational leaders build relationships and they they build a wall around their organization. And when you can build a wall around your organization, it allows collaboration within the teams. So, like thinking of it, if you're listening to this and you're in the army, how battalion shops are built. So you have your S1, which is kind of like HRC, S3, which is your ops, S4 is a logistics, um, S6 is CAMO. Well, by themselves, they have their own distinct job. But when you go do an operation, you know, mission command, that is the integration of all your combat enablers into one to go towards a unified mission. And when a leader can create a shield around their organization that creates an abundancy mindset and allows their teams to talk with one another, then they can get extraordinary results. But when a transfer transitional leader comes in, they tear down that wall. And naturally, what I've seen will happen is those individual shops that I just used as an example, they'll build up their own individual wall and they're unwilling to work with other people in the organization. And at the end of the day, it takes so long to break that back down. So culture starts at the top, right? Is it water and it rolls all the way down. And some of the top transitional practices that I've seen, and that's that's the top one. So a top-down mentality is that you should be focused on bottom-up refinement, giving your people and your team a voice. And then when they get a voice, actually listening and letting them execute that. Um, yeah, I I love that.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

That's uh I think good segue for my leadership philosophy. Yeah, I don't want to steal if you're gonna ask me about it later, uh, but I can summarize that now. If you're interested in that.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Yeah, go go for it.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

So, yeah, I define a good leader as someone who sacrifices for their people to protect their autonomy and their freedoms, whereas a bad leader pretends to have everything under control, so they don't have that humility, but they end up taking away the freedoms and autonomy of those underneath them. So I've seen this in multiple different uh organizations. I've seen this uh, you know, reading history. Like I'd say uh you kind of described those the trans transitional and transformational leaders, uh, like in the settings that I'm talking about uh on an organizational level, like the transformational leader, the good leader, is gonna be the one who is that umbrella and like shields their people from things that are coming from up top that might not be in their best interest. Yeah, whereas a transitional leader might not really care, and they're like, hey, whatever, here's some taskers, go do it. I don't care if it's bad for your morale or if this is pointless or whatever. Um, and then taking that up even to a more strategic level, you know, I think of on one end you have Jesus, who I think is the greatest leader in in history, who he sacrificed and even for his enemies, to the point that he was willing to die so that they could have freedom and they could have autonomy. And he didn't take that away from them, even when that cost him everything. Uh, and then I'd say on the other end, you have somebody like Kim Jong-un, Hitler, whatever, they're these people who pretend like they have control over everything, even though they don't. They're the ones who take away all the the freedom other people, they take away their autonomy, and at the end, like they're they're not really leading, they're just controlling.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah, I'm writing that down, man. I love that. So some of the other things that I've learned with a transitional leader is is ego. It takes a confident leader to admit that they are wrong. And to at the end of the day, that takes a level of humility. You have to build humility. I don't know if that's something that's naturally gifted in people. With me, for example, I learned humility the hard way. I learned to be humble, probably with one of the most powerful stories that I've ever heard. I met my platoon in Afghanistan at a memorial service at the first time when Sergeant Rodriguez passed away. And in before that moment, I was, you know, looking at coming into platoon leader in combat. I wanted to do my job, I wanted to get after it, I wanted to make a name for myself, right? Like that um, we were soldiers, platoon leader that's getting ready to run up the hill, and that sergeant major is like, he wants to win medals. That that was my mindset going into it. And then I sit there, and that memorial, I listened to all the soldiers talk about you know, Sergeant Rodriguez, and I watched the company commander just you know break down to the point, and I'm like, who am I to come in and have an agenda? And I really learned humility at that point, and then as I progressed on my leadership journey, I always had that talking point on my shoulders like hey, always be humble with everything you do. It's okay not to have control of everything because that's life. There's a quote out there, and I don't know who said it, but it's like kind of controlling a wave. You can't control a wave, but you can learn to ride that wave, and I think as a leader, that's what we have to do. Um, that that that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Yeah, I agree. And you know, as a as a pilot, especially single seat pilot, you know, there's a lot of things that go on in my cockpit that no one ever knows about. Yeah. So like I could do something dangerous and no one would know. And I've seen examples of guys who like come back in a debrief and they're like, hey guys, I messed this up today. You know, something that was like in their cockpit that they could have just like, you know, flipped a switch, no one would have ever known. Uh, but they came and fessed up and had a consequence, especially when there's a consequence associated with it and no one ever had to know. Um, but I think there's that premium on as a culture creating an environment where you're like, hey, we will own up to our mistakes so that way we can all learn. Um we know we're not going to be condemned for that. There might be consequences, but like we're going to take care of each other. But then also on a personal basis, like I can't allow myself to start make start that habit of like covering things up or you know, my pride getting in the way and trying to drive an outcome. Uh, like, say, for example, I did something on a check ride that's dangerous in my cockpit. And I'm like, if I if I fess up to my instructor, my evaluator that I did this thing, like I could fail this ride. But to me, it's more important to be to have integrity in the situation than it is for me to pass the ride. And that's something I've just tried to carry with me is that I am more focused on my own character, my own development throughout that process than I am driving a particular outcome because yeah, I could pass a ride when I lied about something or I, you know, I didn't fess up when I made a mistake, but then I gotta carry that with me. And and then it also kind of creates that pattern of like, am I gonna keep is my pride gonna keep uh being secretive and and hiding these things? Uh, I just can't let that develop.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

So character, I think, is the one thing that a leader has to relentlessly and ruthlessly protect because character takes a lifetime to build, but it can just be washed away in a single moment. Uh and I always go back to this very pop culture concept. But you know, as I as I was growing up, I always looked up to Will Smith, right? He was a rapper from Philly, refused to use cuss words, always made, you know, good, wholesome movies, someone that that I looked up to as a man. And then you know, in that one moment when he slapped Chris Rock, lifetime of character just washed away. Probably in a lot of eyes um of people. But I think that's one of the one of the things that you have to be willing to do. And the it kind of comes down to this is do you consistently do the right thing, not because people are watching, but because it's the right thing and you know you need to do it. And I think that's what defines a great leader. That's a that's a beautiful point. So kind of talking on where you currently are on your leadership journey. So where are you at right now and then where are you wanting to go? Because I know you're doing all kinds of things. So A10 Pilot is still in the Air Force, you're building a very successful, and I'll just say that, successful short-term business uh company right now, and then you're getting ready to start a podcast. You you already have a podcast out there, but you know, where where is your leadership journey right now and where do you want to take it?

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Yeah, so uh in the current phase of life I'm in, uh just went through a pretty intensive period of evaluation, going through a new certification uh within my community. So that was a pretty stressful, uh stressful period. And then also earlier this year, we were uh sitting on alert, ready to go to Europe uh with all the stuff going on with Ukraine and Russia. So that was that was pretty stressful. Uh moving the family, packing up my bags, uh like thinking, hey man, this could be turned into World War III. Like, will I, if I if I leave, am I going to see my family again? So that it's been kind of a crazy year, and I think I'm just entering a phase of you know, things are slowing down a little bit into the holidays and all and all that. So um kind of in a period of reflection and just kind of now pulling my hand, my my head out of the sand and looking around and saying, like, okay, where where's the next back step? And and that I think that's kind of another leadership philosophy I have, and I model this after David in the Old Testament, where David was a warrior, he was uh, you know, the story of no David and Goliath, but there's all all kinds of other stories out there about David, but he was a man of action, and he would be in his current circumstance, he would seek counsel, he would seek God's word, he would pray, he would do all these things, and then he would take bold action in the direction. He'd take the next best step. And then sometimes he would fail miserably, uh, sometimes he would have great success. Uh, but then once he took that next next best step, if he messed up, he would, you know, repent, uh, get right with God, he would look around, seek counsel, and then he would he would pivot and he'd take the next best step. And I think that's a good model of faith for for all of us, is just one step at a time. Like, what is God giving me right now? What are the decisions I have to make right now? What are the things I can use uh to make the best decision that I can in the current circumstance? So I think for me, that's kind of I I've been thinking about it really in terms of uh you know my family, my career, my business and ministry. And really to me, like I don't want those things to be four separate things that I'm doing. Like I want them to be cohesive and I want them to be just really integrated with who I am. And so I think you know, for my wife and I, it's growing our family, uh, you know, and figuring out where we're going next on our next assignment for career. Uh, we are hoping to kind of do a little bit more family-friendly assignment on the next one so we can uh have that have that balance between work and family responsibilities. Um, and I would really love to be an instructor at this next assignment. Uh, I think for business, we're really looking to integrate you know our faith with our our rental portfolio and and looking at how we can best serve our our properties and our tenants uh in a way that's glorifying to God. And then also uh we're currently working on an online course for people who are in the military and kind of new to uh investing. Maybe they have one or two rental properties, but it's kind of geared around long-term, uh, long-term and short-term rentals, but managing those from a distance because I've been burned by a couple mediocre to bad property managers, and um, and I've kind of started to leverage technology in order to steward those things in a way that I think is is glorifying to God and uh and better, better use of those things than uh hiring a property manager who may or may not really care. Yeah. Um, and then I think in terms of ministry, uh, we are currently involved with young life. Uh we're college uh college leaders there, so we really are spending a lot of time with our college students, encouraging them. I mean, it's kind of a hard time of a hard time in history to be in college, especially as a Christian. There's a lot of things coming against you, so really just pouring into them and developing those relationships and encouraging them to just walk in in faith and uh just keep fighting every day. So I don't know. We're we're figuring it out as we go, like we said, one step at a time. Uh, but I think it's an exciting period and uh we'll see where where we go next.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah, I I don't know if you wanted to take an opportunity to to you run a podcast, right? And you're kind of shaping that right now with your your thought platform. And I I know you and I know it's connected. So I always talk about the formula to success, to fulfillment in your life, is finding your passion, connecting your purpose with your passion, and then having perspective or a vision of how you're going to get that passion and your purpose to work for you. And I mean knowing you, uh, I know that your faith is very passionate. And and I know that's something that you're trying to bring to the service and probably also to the civilian realm. If you wanted to take a moment to kind of expand on that.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, so the kind of the thought leadership platform that I'm working on with a another friend of mine is it's called Thundering Legion. And basically the idea of that is a group of people who are firm in their faith within the military and they're not willing to be pushed left and right. They're willing to stand for what they believe. And I think right now in our day and age, there's a lot of things that are trying to give uh get us to give up our faith um in inside of and outside of of the military. So it's really just meant to encourage people to stand strong. Um, and really this the genesis of all this was my own military service, and like I mentioned earlier, just trying to. Bridge the gap between who I am as a Christian and who I am as a military member and and how to faithfully live that out. And uh really just want to encourage uh others. And so kind of what that looked like is we have a Instagram, so posting on there every day with just uh just encouragement. I have like this little morning, uh morning battle rhythm that I post on there just for people if they're scrolling, maybe it's like one positive thing they see on Instagram every day. Um uh podcasts, which uh I think we're really gonna focus on three areas of content, which is uh kind of news and worldview. So kind of looking at those through a Christian perspective. So, how can how can we think about these things? Um, interviews, somewhat like this, just uh asking people about their journeys and and how faith has shaped their military service. And then uh for me, I'm really interested in like apologetics and theology and that sort of thing. And so bringing that that that stuff to a practical point and talking about like big questions, like things that I've wrestled with, things that people can uh submit questions, and they and we can wrestle through some of the big questions of faith and uh just walk through that together. So, like I said, it's kind of still in the beginning phases, and we're trying to get all the foundation built and get everything right before we start uh really launching it. But this is actually like my first interview. So uh from here I think we'll be looking to get uh guests on the podcast and start to grow that.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

So you you and I are on the same path. We just have, I think, different different purposes in life. I I'm trying to do the same thing, but I want to create better leaders because I've seen what a poor leader can do to an organization in individual lives, and I've seen what great leaders can do to organizations and individual lives. And I pulled this up Colossians chapter six, verse nine. Let us not become wary in doing good, for at the proper time he will reap a harvest if we do not give up. So I think encompasses that this whole podcast is that we have to be unreasonable and we have to be willing to do the sometimes unpopular thing. And if we continue doing it, we're we're going to bring light into this world. It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same four questions that I ask every guest on the Tales of Leadership podcast. Be brief, be brilliant, be present, and be gone. Question one. What do you believe separates an ordinary leader from an extraordinary leader?

SPEAKER_01 46:34

It's uh willingness to sacrifice for those who you are leading, because I think that breeds a community of trust.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Second question. What's one resource that you could recommend to our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 46:46

I think the the Bible's a great place to start. I think you're gonna say it. Any of the gospel accounts, like I said, I think Jesus is the greatest leader. Actually, I'm not gonna say I he is the greatest leader in history because uh you have this carpenter who's from you know a ghetto, Nazareth in the Middle East, did a three-year ministry with very little uh with very little resources, had 12 colleagues, you know, did his ministry. You know, people debate whether he was actually resurrected or not, but here we are over 2,000 years later, still talking about him. And I think that he has shaped human history in a way that no other human has ever done. And he did that without leveraging sex, money, or power. In fact, the things he was inviting people into was persecution and giving up their lives. Like, how do you how do you bring somebody into that organization? And I think that's leadership. So I think reading any of the gospel accounts, looking at Jesus' life, I think we could all learn so much from Jesus in modeling our leadership after Jesus. And I'd also make the argument that like certain servant leadership really didn't start until Jesus came on the scene. Now it now it's just commonplace. We all think it's like the hotness, but I I think that he was probably the original servant leader who changed the arc of human history. But uh, I'm a little biased, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

I will tell you one of the mentors, and I'm hoping one day I get to meet him. So I'm deviating from the questions and I'm breaking one of my rules of being brief, is John Maxwell. And his he was a minister first, but now he's one of the leading authorities on leadership, and he built his leadership based on faith. And as I was going through my leadership philosophy, my base foundation is meekness, and meekness is an omega-style leadership approach. And I learned that, and if I could be so bold to share this book with listeners, is Jesus CEO. So the author pulls all of the leadership wisdom from the Bible and puts it into a common real world situation. So if Jesus was a CEO of a company, what lessons could you learn from the Bible that would help you be a better leader? When I read that, you know, talking from leading, having a serpent hard, operating from an aerial view, being transparent, leading with windows, having an omega-style approach, meaning understanding when to be the lion, but also being a lamb, and then thinking about it and to your beauty point, it's so beautiful, is that Jesus literally shaped the time of how we measure in a day, like before Christ. One man did that, and he did it without leveraging what you just said, those three things. So, yep, it's a great place to see.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Here we are 2022, then that's 2022 in China, it's 2022 in Iran, it's 2022 in North Korea. What does that point to? Jesus. And I also just to get a little bit the all theological, but like if we and if we want to take this all the way back, you know, think about when you're you know, polytheistic days, like we we all worship our own gods, you know, we're different cultures, like we're all warring and clashing over resources. Like um the default mode of being is like having more power and crushing your opponent, right? Yeah, like that is that is how you advance in the world, and then at some point Jesus comes along and flips out on its head, and now he's saying, like, the default mode of being is is servant leadership and meekness. Um that how does that work? You know, that that flips that's like the reverse economy of Christ, and that that totally opposes this world. So um I just I find that to be incredibly interesting, how ingrained that is in our culture. And even you mentioned earlier how your soldiers were unwilling to fire at children in combat, and they may or may not have even been Christians, um, but they're that is so culturally ingrained in us, uh, just as a Western culture. I mean, there's so many aspects of our culture that are built on these Christian ideals, such as the division of power. Uh that inherently prevents any one leader from taking all the sex, money, and power from everybody else, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

So I one last thing, and then I'm gonna get the question three, I promise. But the that is the one of my missions in life is that I'm proving that you can still be compassionate but successful. And case in point, you know, I'm an infantry officer by trade. Close with destroy the enemy by fire maneuver. I've won the General Douglas MacArthur Leadership Award and several other leadership awards, but I lead with hugs, think of it that that way, not literally hugging people, but humility, understanding, gratitude, and having a servant heart. And if if I can succeed in the infantry, in the infantry, anyone can succeed. There's no excuses. I love that. Um, all right. So, question three. If you had the opportunity to go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 51:53

I can't remember the verse, but there's a verse where um one of the groups, people, I think it's the Israelites, are getting ready to go to battle, they're surrounded by their enemies, and they just pray to God and they say, Hey, we know we don't know what to do, but our eyes are on you. And uh, I always kind of think about that in times of chaos where everything's going sideways, and you know, in your your heart wants to just panic, but you in those moments you kind of just gotta take a deep breath and just like, all right, God, my eyes are on you. There's all this chaos swirling around me. Like, what is the next best step? And and just keep keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

I love it. All right, so final questions, the easiest one. How can our listeners find you and then how can they add value to you in your mission?

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah, so uh the leadership platform, thought leadership platform we were talking about earlier, uh it's called Thundering Legion. Uh, you can find us on Instagram, uh, subscribe on Facebook. We've got the the podcast there. Um, you can also look up my wife and I, our company is uh Reliant Co., which has some subcomponents, one of which is Reliant Properties. Uh, that's also just based on you know our business relying on uh on faith and on God's providence to give us success because we can't earn that ourselves and just being faithful in the little things. Um so Reliant Co. Uh, and then you can you uh those are both on Linktree. So you can look those up as well, and and they'll be linked, I'm sure, in this episode. So yeah, just uh go check it out, subscribe, and and we'll be putting out more content on those pages.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

I love it, Trevor. Thanks so much for being intentional over the past hour and recording this episode with me. Absolutely. It's a good time. All right, team, it's time for our after action review. That was our episode with Trevor, a good friend of mine, and he shared his leadership journey and the connection with faith. I think the first place to start was his definition of leadership at the very beginning, because it really struck me of how he defined that. So time, treasure, and talent. You use your time, you use your treasure, you use your talent to inspire the others around you. And you got to remember, I define leadership as the ability to inspire other people around you. When you can inspire people around you, you're going to build trust and relationships. At the end of the day, I believe leaders build relationships. Because if you can build relationships, you can get things done. Use your time, use your treasure, use your talent. 3T rule. I love that. Next is light and dark. Trevor shared his story of when he was in Korea flying over the Korean peninsula. He shared a picture of North Korea and South Korea. North Korea is desolate, no lights at all. South Korea is bustling. It looks like a Christmas tree. And it's so true that in this world, there is darkness and there is light. There's chaos and there's order, and you have to be able to choose your side. But as a purposeful, accountable leader, the platform that I'm trying to build and bring transformational skills and practices in this world, we have to choose light. We have to choose to enter into a room, enter into an organization, enter into a team with light and bring light into those dark spaces. And that goes to the third key takeaway: being unreasonable. Do not allow the world to bend you to what they believe you should be. Leaders are unreasonable. They do not allow people to tell them what to do when they know something is ethically, morally, or just wrong. If there's a better way to do it and you're on a on a team, speak up with your leader and tell them that it's wrong. And I'm going to say this quote again from Colossians chapter six, verse nine. But this whole episode encompasses this quote. Let us not become wary in doing good. For at the proper time, we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. And that's all you have to do. Every single day, one foot in front of the other, continue to take action, and you eventually will reap a harvest. And when you do reap a harvest, it's not for yourself, it's not for selfish gains. It is going to be a harvest that everyone can share. It's going to be a bounty. Hey, if you got any value from today's episode, do me a favor. Leave a comment, leave a review, subscribe, but most importantly, share this podcast with someone who is just starting out on their leadership career. I'm your host, Josh McMillian, saying every day is a gift. Don't waste your time. I'll see you next time.