Tales of Leadership
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Tales of Leadership
#103 Joseph Polanin - U.S. Navy retired and CEO
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Captain Joseph Polanin, U.S. Navy (retired), is an award-winning CEO and a disabled Navy combat Veteran who served three decades leading elite teams to succeed on complex missions in high-risk environments despite every obstacle. He has 20+ years as a successful Commanding Officer, Task Force Commander, and Director of Operations (CEO/COO) for globally-integrated organizations, led several lasting enterprise transformations, and founded The Alaka’i Leadership Group, LLC, a Strategic Accelerator providing unmatched fractional C-Suite leadership in 2020.
Connect with Joseph Polanin:
-Website: https://www.thealakaigroup.com/
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Introduction to Navy Captain Joe Palanin
Speaker 1You're listening to the Tales of Leadership podcast . This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader what I like to call a pal . Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership .
Speaker 2All right team . Welcome back to the Tales of Leadership podcast . I am your host , josh McMillian . I'm an active duty army officer . I'm an army leadership coach . Welcome back to the Tales of Leadership podcast . I am your host , josh McMillian . I'm an active duty Army officer . I'm an Army leadership coach . I'm the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching . But , most importantly , I am on a mission to create a better leader , what I like to call a purposeful , accountable leader or a pal , and my vision in life is to end toxic leadership by showing you there is a better way to lead . That is being transformational , that is being a servant leader , and I plan to do that by sharing transformational stories and skills . And on today's episode I'm going to be sharing a transformational leader story .
Speaker 2Navy retired rank of a colonel , a captain within the Navy and is an award-winning CEO and a disabled Navy combat veteran who has served three decades , over 30 years leading elite teams to succeed on complex missions in high-risk environments . He has over a thousand different combat missions that he has been able to complete , from Africa all the way to the Middle East . He's been in numerous leadership positions throughout the Navy . He has created his own successful coaching and consulting company and he's also a co-author of a book . This is truly a phenomenal episode , and make sure you stick to the very end and I'll provide you what the top three takeaways Without further ado . Let's let on . Joe , joe sir , welcome to the Tells the Leadership podcast . How are you doing ?
Speaker 3I'm doing very well , joshua , thank you . How are you ?
Speaker 2I can't complain and I mean it and I say it every time when I get an opportunity to talk to amazing leaders , someone who's had such a long , historic career especially as yourself and they're still inspiring and making change , it's always a great day .
Speaker 3Well , likewise , I think that and we'll talk more about this , I'm sure , but I know we're aligned in that leadership is a process of learning and we're always learning something new , we're always growing , we're always expanding our knowledge and making a new room for additional resources , capabilities and people that uplift us and move us higher , to new levels . So , yeah , thanks so much , I appreciate it .
Speaker 2One of the questions I always love starting with and I think you've already answered it and I already started taking a few first notes is how you define leadership , because I have entrepreneurs on here . I've had senior level leaders from the army , the coast guard . I think that you you are the highest retiree , at least from the Navy , that I've had the opportunity to to speak with , and I would love to hear how you define leadership .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's , it's multifac , as you know , and how I define it is it is a blend , right ? It's art and science , it's data and emotion , it's inherited and learned and all of that and more . But distilling that down , really , for me , I believe it's very important to understand what we believe leadership is and what we see it to be and what it can become , and also an understanding of what it's not , and I'll start with that first . In my view and in my experience , leadership is not a position , it's not a rank , it's not a title , it's not an office . It is , however , a process of , and a commitment to , learning , growing and caring about other people .
Speaker 3Someone once said to me well gosh , I don't have this particular rank , or I don't have this particular office , or I don't have this role or this title . Therefore , I'm not a leader . I just have to do what I'm told . I said wait a minute , absolutely wrong , wrong thought process . Have to do what I'm told . I said wait a minute , absolutely wrong , wrong thought process .
Speaker 3Everyone and anyone can be a leader if you are a committed to a process and a culture of learning and innovation , where you're inherently curious , you want to learn more and you want to help other people learn more . And number two , that you , in addition to having that commitment to learning , you have a set of core values and principles that you live by and you demonstrate that every day and through your personal example , at whatever rank you are . If you're a brand new leader , if it's your first job coming out of school in the military , if it's your first assignment , everyone can be a leader through their personal example and their commitment to learning . So I have distilled that down and I've said okay , leadership for me is a process of learning , growing and caring
Defining True Leadership
Speaker 3about other people .
Speaker 3Leadership is not a person , it's not a single attribute , it's a combination of all those things . But , most importantly , it's someone who's transcended , beyond what they are doing and what they can do , into understanding that the reason why we're here is to serve and take care of other people . Once that clicks for a leader , at any level , at any echelon , there's no going back . They've transcended and they realize , hey , the reason I'm here is not . For me , leadership isn't about the leader , it's about those whom they serve .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think that that is probably one of the best definitions that I've had on the show , and I think specifically to the point of if you can learn that leadership is really about serving other people , and if you can learn that at a very young age or early in your career and carry that forward , that's what makes amazing leaders . All the people that I've always looked up to , that's the same core common denominator is that they care about their people , they're curious , they're committed and they want others to shine and they're willing to share that light because they don't care about title or authority .
Speaker 3That's exactly right . That's why I mentioned earlier about understanding what it is and then understanding what it's not . And once we free ourselves of that and we disregard that and we understand that everything we do is about other people , let's face it Leadership would be a very , very lonely place if the only reason we were doing it was for ourselves . Everything we do , from start to finish , every minute of every day , is about other people , and I'll just add this one more point . And I'll just add this one more point . And it has to do with when we say it's about other people .
Speaker 3For me , what that means is it is about uplifting whatever they perceive as their own limitations . Whatever the organization or the team or the unit perceives as its expectations can be exceeded and will be exceeded . And when a team of smart people get together and they realize that there's no holding them back , anything's possible . But it starts with the individual understanding that they're in an environment where they're going to be inspired and elevated . And so when I say it's about other people , it's about elevating , uplifting and inspiring them to say wait a minute , you don't have any limitations , you're going to exceed your potential , you're going to exceed your expectations , and here's how ? Here's how I'm going to help you .
Speaker 2I love that , and it goes back to a quote that it reminds me of by John Quincy Adams , and it always centers me in terms of leadership If your actions inspire others to dream more , learn more , do more and become more than you're a leader , and that just beautifully encompasses what you just stated . I would love to take an opportunity , before we really dig into your story , if you could just provide an overview to the listeners of who you are .
Speaker 3Yeah , absolutely so , Joe Palanin . I served 30 years in the US Navy , from 1990 to 2020 . My profession was explosive ordnance disposal and probably 20 of those 30 years I was in positions of command or command authority . For those who've not been in the military in the audience today , that's analogous to being the CEO or COO or equivalent of that organization . Very often these were globally integrated enterprises and teams that were facing very high threat and high risk circumstances or environments and had very complex missions . And how does one galvanize , integrate and synchronize those efforts across continents , across time zones , to get the mission done ? And sometimes it's hard and sometimes it seems impossible . But what we learned early in my career , which we implemented for decades as the great teams that I had the privilege to be on , was that you either find a way or make one to get the job done . The option is not to say , well , we're not going to get this mission done today , we're not going to make it happen Together . We're going to find a way or we're going to make one , and if there's an obstacle in the way , we're going to find a way through it , over it , around it , make it go away . Now fast forward to 2020 .
Speaker 3When I transitioned out of the service , I explained to folks I still continue to serve , Even though I'm not in uniform . I'm just serving in new directions . Together with my daughters , we founded a private consulting practice . It's called the Alakai Leadership Group . Alakai is a word in Hawaiian . It means great leadership . It's a lot more like a culture or an attitude or a lifestyle than it is a skill or capability .
Speaker 3And essentially what we did with Alakai was we took the best practices and lessons learned of what I saw and what I experienced in the military best practices , what works well , lessons learned , what didn't work well and we fashioned that into a proprietary consultative methodology . And today , through Alakai , we offer three services . The first one is senior executive leadership consulting , so the C-suite , and giving them advice , giving them tools that they can
Navy EOD and Quiet Professionalism
Speaker 3use to improve the efficiency and the effectiveness of their organizations . Fractional C-level leadership , whether it's a fractional COO or fractional CSO and in some cases , fractional CEO . And then some inspirational speaking . We enjoy speaking , we enjoy writing about leadership and strategy and talent , and those are the focus areas of what we're doing today .
Speaker 2So that's the last 34 years in about three minutes to concisely wrap up 34 years of service , a couple of things that stuck out to me . So I've been in now , I think , for 16 years and I've transitioned from , you know , junior officer to a field grade officer . Now , 20 years of being in command positions just strikes a chord with me is that the level of effort and involvement and engagement that that takes to be what we call in the army is like switched on it would be . It's inspiring , it truly is Like that's that's most of people's career that stay full-time in the military is 20 years . But you , you did 20 years within command roles and that's no light task .
Speaker 2And I also love how you talk about we always find a way . And it reminds me of the uniform that we wear and the American flag , and I get this question all the time but why is the stars pointed to the front ? It's because we're always moving forward . We never retreat . We always find a way . I absolutely love that . And you starting your leadership journey I think in 1990 , you were a US Navy Academy , annapolis graduate . Is that where you starting your leadership journey ? I think in 1990 , you were a US Navy Academy , annapolis graduate . Is that where you saw your leadership journey start ?
Speaker 3Oh , absolutely In some cases before then . But from a very young age I knew I didn't know . I didn't have it all mapped out I don't think anyone does , but from a very young age I knew that I wanted to go to the Naval Academy . I did not know necessarily what I wanted to do after that and so I'd say probably from around the age of 13 , 14 , I knew that's what I wanted to do and I became motivated and inspired to do that and blessed to be the first graduate from my high school to be able to do that . So prior to my appointment we hadn't some students go to West Point and the like , but I was very , very blessed to have that occur and earn that appointment . And , long story short , it wasn't until about my third year at the Academy that I was introduced to the Navy's diving and EOD program and after that that's what I knew I wanted to do and went forward from there and I think , like most of us , I did not necessarily have an intent that I was going to serve 30 years .
Speaker 3I took another assignment . I liked it , my wife liked it , we had children , they liked it . I took another assignment , you know . And next thing , you know we blinked and 14 years went by and said , wow , you know , and even it was , it's interesting and you've probably shared these experiences . But even as I got , got older and I'd been in for , let's say , 26 , 27 years , at this point I'd be on a plane flying somewhere and someone would stop me and say , oh , you're in the Navy , how long have you been in ? I said 27 years . Oh , are you going to make it a career ?
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 3But I think for me it never felt like a job , it never felt like a profession . It just very simply felt like where I was meant to be , with whom I was supposed to be serving and doing what I was called to do . It just seemed natural and where I was supposed to be . But yes , I believe for me it certainly started there because I had some fantastic mentors and teachers and , yeah , it's a , it's a great , it's a great experience .
Speaker 2Being committed , I think at the age 13 and 14 , knowing that you want to go to an academy school like West Point , Annapolis , all of these schools it takes a lot to get into those types of programs and to be committed at such a young age . I could already tell you you're a way better man than me . When I was 13 and 14 , I had no plan of what I wanted to do . I was just kind of floundering .
Speaker 2I also love how you talk about that with being in the military for such a long period of time At least for me , I don't . I never really look at it as a job because I genuinely love every single day of it . And looking back at it now , it's crazy to me that I've been in for 16 years , but it's funny it was every two to three years . We move , I meet new amazing people , I have a new exciting job , I have the opportunity to learn new things that I didn't understand before and it just keeps building and building , and building and I guarantee you I'll blink and I'm at 20 years and I'm like , wow , that has went by too fast .
Speaker 3Yeah , you're absolutely right , and it is sometimes when we are in the middle of that we don't pause and reflect and look back and say , wow , look , what happened as I became more senior . Actually , for me , it was almost like a tale of two professional careers , one prior to 9-11 and the other after , because the op tempo , the mission , the requirements of what we were doing was vastly different , and it was . The focus was different and therefore the needs were different , different and therefore the needs were different . And I actually I actually deployed a lot more as I got more senior , because of because of where I was and what I was doing , than I did when I was a junior officer and what , what we ended up doing , which was right , it was the right decision for our family .
Speaker 3As my daughters got into high school , we said , okay , every time a new set of orders would come up , we would sit down as a family and , you know , have our mission analysis and figure out what we were going to do and say , okay , what's the right decision for us at the time . Well , once the girls got into high school , we didn't didn't want to move them around , so I went and I deployed and I did what I needed to do , and then I would get home as often as I could . I did that for the last but eight years of of my military service , so but it was the right decision for us .
Speaker 3It's not . You know , every family has to make that decision for themselves , and that that's what was right for us . For us , it's not . You know , every family has to make that decision for themselves and that that's what was right for us . And and we , we think we made the right call and fast forward to today it's . It's a joy now to be able to uh , to work with my daughters and teach them what we've learned .
Speaker 2I love how you went back and you've created this uh , consulting coaching company with with your family and growing with your family and I think it kind of just goes back to the level of servant leadership . And if you're willing to to take on that burden of being in the military and raising the ranks of like strategic level positions , you have less and less and less and less time away from your family because you have more time committed to what you have to do for your job . People I don't think fully understand . They see all of these like titles , they see the rank of what people hold , but they don't understand all the different levels of sacrifice that they had to go through .
Speaker 2And you know , I know a lot of friends that have done what you're doing or have done , where they will take a job
Strategic Leadership Shift: Doing vs Leading
Speaker 2for two to three years and leave their family where they currently are . So it doesn't have a major impact and it and that is the right move for their family . But from a civilian standpoint , I guarantee you , if someone was listening to that , they're like how did he do that ? But when ? I think military families are more resilient , if that makes sense . My daughter is one of the most amazing people in this world . She is the most resilient girl that I know and if I compared her to some of our friends that are , I think , just civilians that don't understand that culture within the military of moving all the time and having to make new friends and start new schools , it sounds almost counter-cultural like , hey , this isn't sustainable . I think it is , and you have a deeper level of relationship because you value the time spent with your family even that much more .
Speaker 3Yes , you touched upon a few points there that I'd like to just underscore for a moment . First of all , the only reason that we as a family were able to accomplish any of that is because of my wife of 30 years , deanne . She and I made a commitment early on about how we were going to raise our family and what we were going to do , and at every turn , no matter what the circumstance was , no matter where I had to deploy , no matter how long I had to be gone , for , together we found a way to work it out , and , as you do with your family and so many of our other teammates , uh , on the on the line or listening in , uh , today it's it's hard . It's that that , because you make that decision and because you move in that direction , that doesn't mean that that it's not hard . That doesn't mean that you're not sad , uh . That doesn't mean that the separation doesn't cause additional stress and anxiety for everyone .
Speaker 3But I'm a firm believer that when one member in the family serves the entire family , sacrifices and serves each in their own way , and , in fact , both of our daughters when they were considering what undergraduate universities to go to . They're going through the application processes to these various schools and all of them said , hey , write an essay . And they all chose . They both chose to write essays about their experiences and what they learned as a military child , and part of what their thesis was okay , we had our job . We had to do well in school and do our best in sports and our extracurricular activities and help mom take care of everything .
Speaker 3Mom did her job to take care of us and to make sure everything was running like a fine-tuned machine at home and all the wonderful things that our spouses do . Dad , his job was to take care of his team and take care of his people and lead them through whatever challenges they had to get through and bring everybody home safely . And I reflect on that often because without one element , every element had to function in harmony and unity and if one element didn't , then there was a problem . And when I think of our military service members and our veterans today , I always think in this term . I think the service member , the spouse and the families they are all together . They're our heroes . That's the reason why we do what we do .
Speaker 2Yeah , I have no doubt that I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for my wife , um , and my kids would not be who they are today if it wasn't for my wife . I love to take it back pre nine , 11 . You just graduated the Academy . You're getting ready to go into , I think , a training environment , but that's also when desert storm was getting ready to to kick off . What were some of the cause ? I'm I'm genuinely curious some of the struggles that you had to face as a leader , going from a training environment to a combat environment within that desert storm period .
Speaker 3Yes , it was a very , very fast transition . Training was prominent and it was a focus , but it was accelerated , shall we say . My first assignment was on Minesweepers and we had about three , three and a half months to go through a nine to 12 month certification and inspection cycle and it w it was hard . It was , it was really , really hard . But they , what , what brought us together were a , the teammates and the , and the people on the , on the , on the ship .
Speaker 3But this , this resilient , very precise focus that we knew exactly what our mission was and we knew exactly what we needed to do , and at that time what was happening was essentially crew exchanges . So we were training in San Diego area on a vessel that was the exact same type of vessel , that there was another one over in the northern Arabian Gulf , and then , once we certified , we jumped on a plane and flew over there . We went through a series of turnover and then we relieved that unit in place and the individuals on that crew on that ship flew home . We got there and we were supposed to be there for just a few months and , week by week , that got extended into about eight and a half months , and so the transition for all of us was a hard one , but I think it was made easier by the fact that we had a wonderful team of people and we had a very , very focused mission and we all knew what that mission was focused mission , and we all knew what that , what that mission was uh mine , countermeasures and uh and removing uh mines and clearing , clearing the waterways , um for all the , all the entry to all the ports in the in the Northern Gulf .
Speaker 3So , um , that was my first experience and that that is also where it validated for me that I knew that I wanted to go into EOD , Because back in those days in the Navy , all EOD officers had to go through a qualification period on a ship first , then you went to dive school , then you went to EOD school . Now you get your commission , you go straight to dive school , straight to EOD school and to your unit . But in those days that's what our career path was , and so for me , those experiences and meeting so many of those brave warriors at that time validated for me . Okay , now I know I already knew that's what I wanted to do , but this gave it that that extra level of support and validation .
Speaker 2I was curious what drove you to to diving and specifically the Navy Explosive Ordinance Disposalal , eod , because I remember some of the missions that we did in Afghanistan . I would have EOD embedded with me and it was Army EOD . So the Army guys are just absolutely crazy . Some of the things that they would do on our patrols put themselves in extremely harm's way with these improvised explosive devices and basically blow them up for us in a controlled manner . What drove you to that career field ?
Speaker 3Well , my scuba instructor would say it was James Bond . And I'll explain why . When I was in the shipment at the Naval Academy , my scuba instructor's name was James Bond , oh , wow . And he said wherever you go , whatever you do , you can always tell people that James Bond taught you how to scuba dive . And all kidding aside , I always loved the water and I was never the fastest , I was never the strongest , but I always loved the water and I think that was something that I know . I know . Somehow , some way I inherited that from my dad , who passed away when I was very young , but he was an avid swimmer , loved the water as well . Unfortunately , I never got a chance to to swim with him , but fast forward that that .
Speaker 3I think that love of the water started it . And then , the first time that I went on an open water dive , I said this is for me , this is where I want to be . I didn't know too much about EOD at the time . I was aware more of the Navy's diving program . But at the age of 20 , when I was told hey , um , you know you go into diving , you're also going to do EOD I said really , what's that is what you're going to get to blow things up and jump out of airplanes . I said , okay , that sounds great . Where , where do I go for that ? Well , you have to go to school , you have to do this , and it just kind of just kind of went from there .
Speaker 3Now , all kidding aside , the , the culture and the ethos is one that I know that you will identify . This our , our eod ethos is bounded by the notion of quiet professionalism right , you do what's right because it's the right thing to do . You're not concerned about who gets the credit and you get right back to work on on the next task . When it's done , by the way , when there's a struggle or when there's a hard time , you reach out and you grab your teammate and you make sure they're doing okay and they come along with you . For me , that's what it's all about being selfless , putting other people first , being humble and being focused on the mission . You know the phrase team , teammates , mission comes to mind . There's no I in there . There's no , well , I guess there's an I in mission . That doesn't count . There's no notion of self . We were talking about this earlier , putting others first .
Speaker 3But that ethos and that creed of quiet professionalism permeates the EOD community and , in fact , I'll tell you a quick story , joshua , when I was the commanding officer of the Navy EOD school which it's run and managed by the Navy , but all four services train there and you have to go through and graduate from there in order to be a basic EOD technician there was a young college student that was in one of the ROTC programs and he came for a tour with his teammates and we talked about a lot of different things . And when we were done , he said sir , I have a question . I said sure , what's that ? He said you know , you talked about a lot of different things in order to be successful in EOD . He said you talked about academic excellence , physical fitness , teamwork , all these kinds of attributes .
Speaker 3He said what's the most important thing that we
Three Keys to Transforming Team Culture
Speaker 3need to succeed ? I said well , that's easy Don't quit ever . And when you resolve not to quit , you reach out and you grab your teammate and you make sure they don't quit either , because it's not about you , it's about your team . And I don't know whether or not he ended up applying for the program , I don't know whether or not he ended up coming in , but for me that's why , and it's just been an amazing , amazing opportunity to serve with and learn from such phenomenal people .
Speaker 2Exactly why I went in the infantry and I chose to do hard things , jump out of planes and go to ranger school and do all of these hard things is that I wanted to be around a great , inspiring group of people that had a strong culture and historic legacy , that didn't care who had the spotlight , because no one was seeking credit , but always pushed you to be the best version of yourself . I absolutely love that . And then fast forward to over a thousand plus combat missions and counter-certainty operations and all the Middle East and in Africa . How did you grow from being more of a junior leader to a strategic level leader ? What were some of the lessons that you had to apply or learn ?
Speaker 3Well , first of all , joshua , as I'm sure you know , there are many lessons . There's one that stands out to me the mentor of mine , where I worked on one of the Navy's numbered fleet staffs . This is analogous to being at a core level headquarters , and I was a senior 04 at the time , getting ready to promote to 05 . And I had a wonderful , wonderful department head and captain and he , he called me in one day . He said you know what he said I , I see you running around , you always have your notebook , you're always writing things down , you're always , you're always bringing together people , you're getting things done , you're making things happen . Somebody says to you hey , can you do this ? You say yes , and then the next day you get it done . He said let me ask you something . He said when are you going to stop doing things and when are you going to start leading people to accomplish big things ? And at the time it just hit me like , like a wall , and I talked with him in his office for about half an hour and I left his , his office that day a different , a different leader , and it wasn't something that I can put my finger on and say well , immediately I started doing all these things differently , but it was a strategic shift where I realized that there are skills and capabilities and there's a level of excellence that you achieve and at some point you have to let go of some of those things . Even if they're wonderful , wonderful , tried and true , effective ways to get the job done . At some point you have to let go of that in order to make room for the new skills and the new abilities that you need to perform at the next level and then again at the next level . And it's not about promotions and command , it's about leadership . And it's about what promotions and command ? It's about leadership . And it's about what we talked about earlier . If you would have asked me then what my definition of leadership was , I guarantee you it wouldn't have been the same as the one I just gave you now , but for the experiences that I've had . But that was a strategic shift and a strategic point for me .
Speaker 3And there was another one that came . This is a shorter story . There was another one that came when I was in task force command so this is analogous to being in brigade command and I was working in Europe , africa and for NATO and my boss came to me and he said he said hey , planet , I want to tell you what my command philosophy is . And I said okay , yes , sir . And he said , okay , so if I don't tell you no , what do you think that means ? I said I think that means yes . He said you're absolutely right , you're good , keep moving . And he and I had wonderful conversations about command philosophy , mission command , delegation , empowerment . I learned so much from him in such a short period of time .
Speaker 3But that was another one of those moments where I felt like I understood commander's intent . I felt like I knew the direction that we were moving in together . But but just that short statement and that the empowerment that and and the trust and the inspiration that went along with that , just uh , were absolutely indescribable . Uh , beyond , beyond the story I'm telling you today , it just made me feel six inches tall .
Speaker 2Team . Let's take a quick break from this episode and I want to share an additional leadership resource with you , and that is one-on-one leadership coaching through McMillian Leadership Coaching . So what do I do ? I help leaders discover their purpose , create a long-term growth plan and take inspired action . I believe everything rises and falls on leadership and , regardless of where you are in life , one fact is true you are a leader of others , you are a leader of your family and , most importantly , you are a leader of yourself . To lead others well , that starts by leading yourself well . If you want to learn more , you can go to McMillianLeadershipCoachingcom and schedule a free call today .
Speaker 2Back to the episode . I think that those mentors were perfectly placed in your career to help you move to that next level . That's the beauty about the military and I know the Navy is the same way as the Army about developing junior leaders and seeking out and having mentors along the way that we have that ability to get there . I don't see that as much now that I work in acquisitions for the army that as much within , like the civilian ranks . Like the civilian ranks , it's very like check the block type when it comes to mentors . All right , here's your quarterly assessments that most of the time that the peers do them or they do themselves .
Speaker 2But having that strategic shift that you said of being able to identify , if I want to continue to move up and gain influence and inspire people and make a bigger impact , I have to learn to delegate or mission command . Of how we do it in the army , I'm sure it's probably similar in the Navy . We have to be able to make a pivot , that we can be greater as a team and even more so than just as an individual . And that's the true , difficult and I would love to hear from your standpoint . You've led large organizations Sometimes you can't choose who's on your team and I've taken over teams too that had adversity , low morale , poor performance , all of those things . How do or how did you turn around that culture ?
Speaker 3Yeah , there are , and you're right . It's absolutely right . It's not like we were able to choose who was on the team , and especially when you're at a higher echelon and you have units with commanders and commanding officers that have their own requisite authority and you're trying to galvanize that group together . I have found three things to be . You know there are many more , but I have found three primary ways that have worked for me . Number one having a bold vision . Status quo doesn't work . It's okay to keep things the way they are now Doesn't work . This is the way we've always done . It Doesn't work . However , when a bold vision is presented here's where we want to be in two years . Here's how we're going to change some things to make it better I would always begin with listening .
Speaker 3I have a methodology that I've used that I would sit down with that task force command that I told you about . Our staff was about 26 people . I sat down with each person on that staff for an hour and just listened to what they had to say , and I would always end with if you could change something , what would you change ? What would make this place better ? What would be the right vision for us ? What should we do why ? Why should we do it ? And what I found was there was so much more commonality and so much more that united the team than there was that divided it . And then I was able to take those commonalities and so , okay , I sat down with everyone . Here's what I heard , here's what you said , and three quarters of everyone thinks we ought to do this . So you know what we're going to do that , and in six months we're going to do this , and in a year we're going to do that . And that was always helpful .
Speaker 3No-transcript , and what I mean by that is , for example , this is not a joke . Right , you can only have one most important thing , but I used to listen to leaders at a lot of levels talk about well , this is the most important thing , and this is the most important thing , and these are my top priorities . You , you can only have one most important thing , and so prioritization is key , and letting people know that , that you have their back and that you're willing to listen , and that back , and that you're willing to listen and that not only that you're willing to listen , but that you understand and that you're you're flexible enough to make changes . Nobody knows it all , so don't try . So , number one , vision . Number two , uh , priorities , and then um , number three within priorities understanding that everyone has strengths . So you mentioned earlier about maybe the unit has low morale or maybe there are some problems or we don't get to choose the people that we have . I have found that if you listen carefully and you understand people and you put others first , you find out where people's skills are and you find out where their strengths are . And it may not be in what is in their occupational specialty or what's in their profession or what is in their academic background . It may be in something else .
Speaker 3I had one unit that I was working at . We had a reserve petty officer who worked in logistics and supply and he was literally stocking shelves and I found out that he had two , not one , two different PhDs in computer science , different PhDs in computer science . He didn't work in the stock room for very long because we moved him into the information technology infrastructure and he helped us out tremendously , transformed that organization at that time and place . But we don't know what we don't know and sometimes people come into an organization and they may or may not be in a position where they're being utilized in a way that inspires them and propels the organization forward . So , having a bold vision , listening to people and prioritizing , and then recognizing that everyone has strengths and why not ? Put them in a position where it's gonna be conducive to their success as an individual and to the unit's success .
Speaker 2One thing that I love in all of that , sir and I don't hear that enough in other leaders is listening and giving other people the time and space to hear . Most of every organization , at least what I've seen the answers are there within the organization , within the team . You don't have to reinvent the wheel , but you have to be able to create that in a space of where you can get that type of illicit feedback and then act upon it . So I created an acronym just listening to you , listen , observe and then act . Loa Just go out there and do that . I love that advice .
Speaker 3I like it . Thank you so much . You say about listening . Listening is a skill , joshua , that I'm always working to get better at . In fact , all of the teammates that I've served with over the years , they would say planning loves to talk . I do love to talk . I'm the individual who , if there's a two talk , I'm . I'm the individual who , uh , you know , if there's a two minute conversation happening , I'm the guy who can add 30 minutes to that two minute conversation .
Speaker 3But but I , before I
From Military Service to Leadership Consulting
Speaker 3had the privilege of um beginning my my first command tour , I went into that tour thinking , boy , communication is the most important thing . Communication is that . Great teams , great organizations , they begin and they end with great communication . Boy , communication is the most important thing . And at the end of that tour I still believed that communication was the most important thing . But I was resolute in my focus that the listening component of communication is vastly , vastly more important and more impactful . I read a quote the other day and I'm not sure who said this , nor is my colleague who I fact checked it with , but it goes something like this when we , when we speak , we're we're , we're repeating something we already know , but when we listen , we have the chance to learn something new .
Speaker 2I always go back to this concept of leading with windows , where leaders are transparent , and I love that idea of that . There's a screen as well within in there . So if I give you feedback , it's a two-way street . Communication and listening is a two-way street . I should not always be creating the ideas . I should be listening intently and filtering out those ideas based on if they will work or fit the current operational environment . Because that is what the leader does . They steer the course and they drive bold change and create those inspirational visions , but they also make sure that they're staying on course and they're moving towards their true north . And you spent such over 30 years in the Navy . I would love to hear that story of what inspired you to get out and then also create your own leadership consulting group yeah .
Speaker 3So I I always knew that I wanted to start a business , a company of some kind . I just didn't know what shape or form that would take and so , even a few years before I retired from the military , I thought , okay , I want it , I want to do this . And then when I had the conversation with my daughters , who now are both in graduate school , one's working on becoming an attorney , the other one , I think , is going to become an entrepreneur , is working on her MBA right now . But when I had the conversation with them and with my wife and we talked about it , I said , you know , I definitely want it to be something that I love . And what inspired me was remember I mentioned to you earlier that the military , the Navy , never felt like work to me . It just felt like where I was meant to be . I wanted to have that same feeling and I thought really hard about it .
Speaker 3So from when I first decided , and when we first decided to start the company , I didn't do anything with it for like a year . I just thought really hard about what do I want to do , why do I want to do it and what can I do that I love , that nobody else is doing . So I studied about 100 similar consulting firms and I realized that there are a lot of companies out there that say they can do what . I realized that there are a lot of companies out there that say they can do what I do . There are a lot of companies out there that say that they could offer as a service offering what we do , but there weren't any that I could find after I researched a hundred that said they only do what our thesis was and what our model was . And so that's what I learned when I was in the Navy and what I did was I fashioned with my daughters . We fashioned this proprietary model around the concept of vision , planning and people .
Speaker 3So what's the vision for your company ? Wonderful , great . What's the plan of action to make it happen ? And it can't be 150 page thing that sits on the , on the on the desk and gathers dust . It's got to be something simple that people can get behind .
Speaker 3And then people ? To what degree are your people inspired and motivated and are they champions for this cause if you have a bold vision and you have a clear and simple plan of action and your people are inspired and motivated , just like the CEO or the president or the founder . That is rare and that company is going to be able to accelerate and grow . And so many organizations that I had the privilege of serving in in the military I got to implement that kind of a model and I didn't keep a log book or anything , but I that's what I love to do , and so I kept the best practices and I kept the lessons learned and that's why we did it .
Speaker 3Because , again , for me that's not work , joshua , that's just helping people , and if I can help one company accelerate beyond what they think their limitations are , or if I can help them not make a mistake that will cause them or cost them in the future problem , then for me that's all worth it and that's why we do what we do and that's why we founded it . Because , again , for me that's not work . It's just where I'm supposed to be .
Speaker 2I love the concept that you're doing this because you want to continue to serve and inspire other people , and the whole reason that I started this podcast and everything that I'm doing in terms of leadership is because I believe it's my time , talents and treasures that I can give back . But I also believe if I can impact one leader and teach them how to lead with a servant heart , be transformational , be what I like to call a purposeful , accountable leader , a pal , they can impact a thousand lives , a million lives maybe , and maybe one of those lives could be a veteran or an active duty service member that's on the brink of suicide and at the deep core root of what I'm doing . What I'm doing is to try to build better leaders so I could save a life . That's all of this , and I know that's near and dear to your heart too , because I did my due diligence . You're the president of the board of the Veterans Ranch , a nonprofit that helps ending veteran suicide . I would love to hear how did you get involved in that ?
Speaker 3Yeah , it's an absolutely phenomenal organization and the notion is that , through equine therapy and interaction with horses beautiful , wonderful animals that those who are undergoing periods of post-traumatic stress , those who may be undergoing other emotional challenges of any kind , the benefit that can be derived from that is , again , indescribable . And it's an organization that is 100% dedicated to eliminating veteran suicides . I don't know the exact number , but I know the number is probably greater than the estimates that are prevalent today and , quite frankly , one is too many . And I have known far too many teammates that have returned , as I'm sure you have too , that have returned from whatever operational environment that they were in , have returned from whatever operational environment that they were in that have invisible scars and invisible wounds that they may not heal from . And , like you mentioned earlier , if we can help one of them , then it's worth it .
Speaker 3And someone said to me and I had this conversation with JR Smith and his father , who are the founder of Veterans Ranch and we said you know , someone will say , well , we're trying to help thousands of people . That's insurmountable , it's impossible . How's that happen ? And the conversation that we had was you know , maybe there are a lot of people there . Certainly are a lot of people . There certainly are a lot of people that we're trying to help , but if you look at it that way , then it may seem extremely challenging . But what if you help one person and you can't prove a negative ? So what if you help one person and that person chooses to live , and they choose life to them and their family , the aid and the assistance that helped in that choice means everything , and we may never know the number of people that that we help . But again , if we can help one , as you , as as you mentioned earlier , that's , that's what it's all about .
Speaker 2Yeah , they're , they're great , they're a great group of people in a fantastic organization yeah , I saw that and I definitely wanted to bring it up from just a standpoint , just saying thank you , using your platform and being able to to help veterans . That's something that's near and dear to my heart and I wish I had more time to volunteer for things like that , but one day I will . I'm the season of life that I'm in right now , but thank you for that . And then one of the last questions I wanted to bring up was the book that you kind of co-authored too . So Unleashing Firepower , mastering of Business , excellence , and this really interesting concept of this book is a bunch of different authors who provide their wisdom , and I would love to hear how did that book kind of come about ?
Speaker 3Yeah , so about four months ago I had the great privilege of meeting the individual who led the development and the key author and the key editor of that book , coach Michael J Tolan , and he has a wonderful podcast , just like yours , a wonderful podcast , and it's called , instead of impossible , it's , I'm possible , same letters , but it means something different . Of course , anything's possible , right , and he is a wonderful , wonderful leader and a fantastic human being and a great friend . And we did a podcast like this and it was fantastic . And he approached me afterwards and he said you know , what I'm thinking about doing is bringing together many of the people who I've had as guests on the show and asking each one to write a chapter in the book and would you consider contributing ? And I said absolutely . And it kind of took off from there .
Speaker 3We then did a conference , a virtual conference just like this , where different guest speakers came in and it wasn't really a book launch , but what we did was everybody who was a co-author spoke for a few minutes and then other keynote speakers came in to talk about leadership and talk about the successful management and organizational development , whatever . They're different . We had sales leaders , we had attorneys , we had doctors , we had other different manufacturing professionals etc . And during that we spoke about the book and let people know about it and 48 hours later it was a number one bestseller on Amazon . And so , yeah , just everything happens for a reason and it was a fantastic experience . And coach Michael J Toland Unleashing Firepower . He's just a fantastic person and I'm very , very glad to know .
Speaker 2I love that concept of just enlisting all the different wisdom from multiple different leaders and putting it in one book . I bought that book actually yesterday , so it's coming in on Amazon . I'm excited to read that . Last question before we get to the final show segment and it'd be kind of rapid fire questions , but this is one of the last ones that I love is what is the best advice that you would give to someone who's just getting ready to start their leadership journey ?
Speaker 3Don't think that it's about you . Always put other people first , be patient . Be patient with yourself and others , because you're gonna make mistakes and always have larger and grander expectations than you . You think the phrase bite off more than you can chew comes to mind I . I go back to , and I'm paraphrasing here , the phrase that Vince Lombardi made famous , where we aim for perfection but we find excellence along the way . We go into it knowing that there is no such thing as perfection in life . We are , by our human nature , imperfect and we will never be perfect . So it's not about if you're going to make a mistake . It's about when you make a mistake and how you rebound from that and how you are resilient from that . But have bold goals , have big dreams and go for it . And I'll wrap that part up by another one of my favorite all-time characters , and that's Rocky Balboa .
Speaker 3I boxed when I was in college . I wasn't very good , but I enjoyed it and I enjoyed the workout . I lost many more fights than I won . My teammates will tell you that , but I enjoyed it . And maybe I had a hard head , maybe that's why I enjoyed it . But
Veteran Support and Final Leadership Advice
Speaker 3Rocky Balboa was famous for saying it's not about how hard you can hit . It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward , how much you can take and keep moving forward . Those who are resilient , no matter what the challenges that come their way , are going to be those that help others succeed and themselves will succeed in the future .
Speaker 2I usually do like a final show segment with four rapid fire questions , but that was such a beautiful ending point it really is . Of this episode , the last one I'll just throw out at you , sir , is how can our listeners find you and how can they add value to your mission ?
Speaker 3Absolutely so . It's wwwthealakaigroupcom . T-h-e-a-l-a-k-a-i groupcom . That's our website . That's the best way to find us .
Speaker 3How you can add value is if you are in need of , or if you know others who are in need of , either senior executive leadership consulting for the senior leaders in your organization , fractional C-level or senior leadership support , or inspirational speaking . You need a program for a leadership conference any of those three areas . Generally speaking , I can work with any and I love to work with any type of organization in any industry or sector , but I specialize and we specialize in organizations that are , let's say , from one to 10 years in organizational development and you know , maybe , maybe just getting going . An early stage company , or a company that's been successful but wants to grow and scale and doesn't really , doesn't really know how , or a company that's going through perhaps an M&A event or they're they're thinking about selling the organization . Those types of companies , generally speaking , need additional senior executive leadership support that we're uniquely positioned to provide . So if your organization fits into that category or you know someone who does , you can certainly add value to us by letting us know and having them contact us through our website .
Speaker 2Joe , this has been . I'm going to say , sir , I can't help it . This has been a phenomenal episode . Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and being intentional with me for this past hour . It's been an absolute pleasure , Joshua , thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and being intentional with me for this past hour . It's been an absolute pleasure .
Speaker 3Joshua , thank you so much for what you're doing , and thank you for your wonderful efforts and for your service as well . Teammate .
Speaker 2All right team . That was a phenomenal episode with Joe , a retired Fulberg Colonel . Captain equivalent within the Navy spent over 30 years of service to this country and is still serving to this country . And , if you notice , I didn't do my final show segment that I typically do the Killer Bees . That's because Joe's last answer to my question , I think , was just a beautiful ending to that podcast episode . I could have asked him so many more questions because he has so much experience , but I wanted to be respectful of his time .
Speaker 2So , after action review , top three takeaways , let's go . Number one leadership is a process and you need to understand that . That's a science and there's an art to it , like how he talked about the data , emotion . It's inherited , it's learned all of these different things . But it's important to define what leadership is not before you define what leadership is . And leadership is not title , it's not rank , it's not holding an office . Leadership is about , number one , being committed in office . Leadership is about , number one , being committed , understanding that you are going to serve and be a part of an organization that is greater than yourself . And then , number two , you need to understand how you want to serve those core values of how you want to show up , and I always go back to how Brene Brown talked about this in the book Dare to Lead , that we have demonstrated core values and aspired core values . What you need to do is figure out what your core values are and then make sure that they are demonstrated and not aspired . The second key takeaway that I took from this is leadership intelligence , and I did a whole episode on leadership intelligence from my standpoint , how I see it , and I see it in three different levels so tactical , operational and strategic .
Speaker 2As you grow on your leadership journey , those lines become blurred , but you're progressing . When you first start in a position , wherever it is , we'll just use a soldier . You are directly responsible for the outcome of your success . You have to be able to fire your own weapon . You have to be able to go on that ruck march and cover 12 miles and 15 minute miles in under three hours . You have to be able to take your own combat army combat physical fitness test . You have to do things , but as you gain rank , you doing things is not as important as you getting other people to do things .
Speaker 2So we always talk about influence , and I think that that's a dirty word when it comes to leadership if it's used in the wrong way . But what you need to learn to do is to allow mission command to blossom , and when you can do that , you can go from good to extraordinary , because you're tapping into people's times , talents and treasures to help build that organization , to help build the culture within your organization . And that's one thing that a lot of people fail at and what I've seen people who do fail become toxic leaders that are ran by fear , ran by their ego , because they're afraid to give up power . And listen to me when I say this because it's 100% true . At some point in your career , you are going to get to a level of where you are not going to be successful unless you can learn to delegate . And you have to learn to live with that risk , and I had a boss tell me this one time . You need to delegate to the level that you are uncomfortable . And if you do not feel that you can delegate to your team because you don't trust them , why are they on your team ? You have to find people that you wholeheartedly trust and , as a leader , you have to be able to give trust . To get trust right , you need to understand that the final key takeaway is building cultures .
Speaker 2In the military , it's extremely challenging sometimes of when we take over a team . Every single team I've ever been on , I have never had the ability to handpick who I serve with . That's . That's challenging . In the civilian organization , you can direct hire people for the roles that you want to fill , but in the military , that's not the case . So you have to learn how to inspire people through your actions , through
Key Takeaways: Leadership as Process
Speaker 2your demonstrated values . That's hard , so how do we do that ?
Speaker 2Number one and I love how Joe talked about this is it's and it follows the rule of KISS , keep it simple Is build a bold vision . Make sure that you also enlist the help of other people . You are not the smartest person in the room . We've talked about this countless times on this podcast . What you need to understand is that you need to build a bold vision and in order to build that bold vision , you need to elicit feedback from your team . So create an environment and an opportunity for other people to give you active feedback .
Speaker 2And number two is prioritize . You need to learn how to create and rack and stack priorities , and this is another hard truth that you're going to have to understand as a leader is that if everything is a priority , then nothing is a priority . You can only have one top priority and you can have focus areas , you can have other lines of efforts that you want to try to advance on , but if you have more than one priority , you're really stretching yourself and your organization and you're setting it up for failure . And the last one of building an effective culture is finding strengths , finding the talent within your organization and aligning those talents to the correct position . And I created another acronym You're welcome LOA , which in the military is also an acronym . It's funny . It's a limit of advance . Whenever we hit our LOA , that's typically the operational environment has ended , we've cleared through an objective . We always scream the limit of advance , loa . But what I mean by that is LOA .
Speaker 2But what I mean by that is listen , listen to your team , observe , observe the actions of others , who has influence within your culture and who does not have title and power and still has influence in your culture . And the last one is act . If you've listened to your team , you've observed your team , do not hesitate to take inspired action . Go , be that purposeful , accountable leader , just exactly like how Joe is Team . Do me a favor , if you like what you've heard so far .
Speaker 2Make sure you share this podcast with someone . It doesn't matter what platform you listen . You can find this podcast episode on any major platform that every major podcast is on . Number two , make sure you check out some of the additional resources that I have . You can go to mcmillianleadershipcoachingcom . Go follow me on social media , but also make sure that you rate this show regardless of what you listen on . And number three , if you so choose and it would be an absolute honor to support or donate to this show because it helps me to continue to create powerful content and eventually I'm going to create a nonprofit organization because I want to make a bigger impact , specifically towards veteran suicide , and I want to use my platform to do that . But as always , team , I am your host , josh McMillian , saying every day is a gift . Don't waste yours . I'll see you next time .
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