Tales of Leadership
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Tales of Leadership
#107 Michael Klemmer - Brewing Success After Service
Nestled in the foothills of Charlottesville, Virginia, Aerial Resupply Coffee emerges as a testament to service and community. Founded by U.S. Army Veteran Michael Klemmer, this brand embodies a dedication to honor those who serve. After a 20-year military journey and global exploration, Mike returned to Charlottesville with a passionate mission—to brew coffee that mirrored their values. This Charlottesville Coffee isn't just about premium roasts; it's a tribute to veterans, first responders, active military, and their families. Aerial Resupply Coffee fosters a community that cherishes both exceptional coffee and a shared commitment to service. Each carefully crafted blend tells a story of unwavering dedication, honoring the heroes and their supportive families.
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-Website: https://aerialresupplycoffee.com/
🫡 My Why: I’ve seen the cost of poor leadership — how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in the worst cases, lead to lives lost, including through suicide. That’s why I’ve committed my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actionable insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons.
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The other part of it, though, is that everybody who leaves the military is lockstepped into a mindset that any job that they take has to be a pay raise. I'm moving from this job, I'm moving from this career. I'm moving from this rank to this position. I'm moving from 03 to 04. That's a pay raise. I'm now in charge of a bigger organization. I'm moving from 04 to 05, 05 to 06, whatever right, it all comes with a step pay increase.
Speaker 1:You leave the military. That's not the case. You could leave the job, you could go to a career, and you could be like well, this is a director role, and it could pay 30% less than what you were making in the military, without benefits, bonuses and all that other stuff, or the flip side you could get out and make three times the amount that you were making in the military, but you're never home. So it all comes with the trade-off, and what you have to realize is that compensation is not tied to your rank or your position or whatever, and it's not tied to happiness. You have to determine what matters to you and then go from there.
Speaker 2:You're listening to the Tells the Leadership podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader what I like to call a pal. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership.
Speaker 3:All right team. Welcome back to the Tells the Leadership podcast. I am your host, josh McMillian. I'm an active duty army officer. I'm an army leadership coach, I'm the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching and I am on a journey to become the best leader that I possibly can. And I have a clear mission I want to end toxic leadership and build a better leader what I like to call a purposeful, accountable leader and I'm going to do that by sharing transformational stories and skills.
Speaker 3:And on today's episode, I'm bringing you a transformational leader Michael Kramer. He is a US Army veteran who has served over 20 years. He has been an enlisted soldier and he has been an officer soldier and he has been an officer and, most importantly, he's an entrepreneur and the founder of Aerial Resupply Coffee. This is a great episode, especially when you talk about the transitioning out of the military and then creating your own company. So, as always, stay to the very end and I'll provide you with the top three takeaways that I took from this episode, and you can go to McMillianLeadershipCoachingcom and you can look at the leadership resources tab and find this blog article that accompanies this episode. Let's go ahead and let on, michael. Michael, welcome again. I think it's funny every time that I say that twice. But welcome to the Tales of Leaders podcast. How are you doing, brother?
Speaker 1:Pretty good man. How are you? Thanks for having me on this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, I'm excited. I really love having military veterans on and I've had people who are now ranging from John Troxell, david Petraeus to some of my war buddies that my first deployment to Afghanistan. To some of my war buddies that my first deployment to Afghanistan. And I love having veteran perspectives when it comes to leadership and really just being able to share their stories and you have a very unique story. But I think we should just start off by if you could take the time to provide an overview to the listeners of who you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, so, mike Clemmer, I spent 20 years in the Army. First six I spent in the MI world and then I commissioned at the end of 2006 as a logistics officer, quartermaster, basic branch, and spent the last 13 years of my career doing various deployments to the Middle East, just like a lot of us did in the 2000s to 2020. And, you know, spent some time recruiting, spent some time in trade, doc, ended my career as a major and decided that I wanted to do something different and punched my ticket out of the army, found a job in the corporate world that I thought I would enjoy and that's what I wanted to do. And then that took a sideways turn when it became something I didn't want to do. And then I started aerial resupply coffee.
Speaker 3:So you and I are at the same rank of when you, when you decided to jump ship and leave the Army. I'm at that rank and so many of my peers at the rank of major decide that you're either all in and you're going for the 20 years if you're an officer for the whole time and not enlisted prior service or you decide to get out. You get a taste of the S3XO life and you're like, yeah, I don't know if that's my life or not, but I would love to start off with the point of how you define leadership. So, from your perspective, being a non-commissioned officer working through the enlisted ranks and the commissioned officer and now leading civilians, most likely from being an entrepreneur how do you define leadership?
Speaker 1:Well, I think leadership, you know, I mean you look at the way the Army defines it and it's, you know, providing purpose, direction, motivation. You know, at least from the non-commissioned officer side, right From the officer side, it's much more about you management, which is, do people understand what is expected of them? And then, do they understand or do they have the tools and the resources to be successful, to meet those expectations?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's critical man Expectation management, but also provide the tools and sometimes, at least I've seen throughout my career, is that expectations are there of what you need to do but you don't have the tools to be effective. Within your job, and I think as a leader, that's one of the things that you have to be able to be willing to give up is power, and part of that is the tools for your team to actually implement and be successful.
Speaker 1:I would agree with that.
Speaker 3:So where did your leadership journey start and what drove you to join the army in early 2000s?
Speaker 1:well, joining the army was all about the fact that I really wanted to eat and I was tired of being broke, so like there.
Speaker 1:So I'd like to say that there was like this delusion of grandeur way back in the day where I I was like I'm going to join the army and serve my country and this is my lifelong purpose, when in reality I was, you know, a dumb 22 year old who needed to do something and I wanted the army to kick me in the butt to help move me in the right direction, which it did, and so that's that's really you know kind of why I started there.
Speaker 1:And you know, what the army provided more than anything, I think, is a framework for me to really develop myself as to who I wanted to be and how I wanted to take care of myself, much less take care of other people. And the army forces you to take care of other people because that's just kind of the upper out leadership model that they have Everybody's responsible for somebody else. You know each rank that you gain, you're responsible for a wider scope than the rank before, and so you are naturally put in a position where you either take care of the people below you or the army will find a way to move you back down to the rank you're supposed to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have never been in an organization outside of the army supposed to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have never been in an organization outside of the Army, but I can tell you that, at least from my perspective, that they groom you quite well versus other branches of what I've seen for that level of responsibility, at least within my wheelhouse and being now as a major, and all the things that I am learning whenever I transition to go be a PM one day.
Speaker 3:I have touched every single scope of that job and I've been a subject matter expert. That trained me to take that next rank and I think the same was true when I was an infantry officer. Jrtc, I think was one of the most informative jobs that I had before I took a company command. But just being able to do so many different rotations and see all these different company commanders and field tactical exercises and failing doing okay and then excelling, and then just seeing what the standard looked like of, hey, if you wanna be a good company commander, this is what it looks like, and I don't think the civilian world at least offers that. They just throw you in to a position, they give you some different types of education or tools, but you really don't get practical experience of reps, at least how you do in the military.
Speaker 1:I think you know, if you look at the military, the army and any military branch is designed specifically to create the cogs in the wheel so that the machine still runs. So whether it's you as an XOS 3 or whether it's somebody else, it doesn't matter who. Somebody will fill the XOS3 role. Right, that position will continue to work and somebody will have a framework of knowledge of how it's supposed to work, even conceptually, to be able to help keep that organization moving forward. Civilian size is a little bit different, so people are recruited based on the skill sets that they already have, not the skill sets that they need to develop into that role. And so you know you might have. You might be looking for somebody who's a network administrator. Well, you're not going to hire somebody who has no knowledge about that or is coming out of just college to be the senior network administrator for that organization. That doesn't work like that, not in the civilian world where you're expected.
Speaker 1:You know there is on the job training a little bit. I mean there's always going to be a nuance to learn how a different organization or company operates in the civilian sector, because you got to learn the people, you got to learn their informal systems as much as their formal systems. You have to learn. You know how do they do business, how does the company make money. The army doesn't have to worry about that and when you're on the civilian side, you know you're in much more of an indirect leadership role than a direct leadership role that you'll ever be in, and so you know a lot of what I did prior to getting out.
Speaker 1:I read a book called Influence Without Authority, because it's one of the books that I think helped set me up to understand that it's not the same. You might have a manager, but that manager might not have the theoretical power that you would expect a battalion commander or company commander or anybody else to have to be able to do anything about things yeah, I think I think you're spot on man and having that kind of perspective of where you've lived in both sides I think is pretty powerful.
Speaker 3:And me being in acquisitions now I read that book when I transitioned out of the infantry into acquisitions and my first job they stuck an infantryman in AMSA, so Aviation, mission Systems Architecture and PO Aviation and I had a team of civilians you know master's degrees and very different forms of discipline and engineering, all these people who've retired as sergeant majors, and I really didn't have any direct authority over them, no supervisor authority, I didn't rate them any of those.
Speaker 3:So how would I inspire those individuals to actually accomplish things? And that book was pretty instrumental in me kind of retraining my brain of like, how do I influence people when I don't directly have authority or a supervisor role over them? And that kind of put me out of my comfort zone because I was used to being like a company commander. Okay, well, I'm the commander, so this is what we need to do in order to be successful and have that type of framework and then mentor my junior platoon leaders and all those different things. It was a different type of role. But taking it back to your journey, enlisted 2000 to 2009 before you commissioned, I commissioned in 2006.
Speaker 1:Commission in 2006.
Speaker 3:2006. What were some of the obstacles that you kind of worked through, first joining the Army as an enlisted officer, and then what drove you to resign your enlistment and actually go commission as an officer?
Speaker 1:Well, you know. So if you look at what the operational environment was, I guess, to use military terminology back in 2006, the Army was hurting for officers, right, and the years prior to that, in 2004 and 2005, because of the surge, they were actually doing a ton of direct commissions. Ocs was rolling, they were looking for some really specific branches and so and they were offering programs like degree completion, where if you didn't completely have your college degree, the army would give you a year to complete it after you commissioned. So that's really the program that I took and so you know I could have gone MI.
Speaker 1:But back then there was not the option to do OMLs or merit lists where you get to choose and they have like these draft nights now at OCS. It was kind of just the basic, like you get what you get put down, what you think you might want to do, and the army is going to select for you. And so I went from MI to quarter master and honestly it was the best thing that happened to me. And you know that transition, you know leaving the MI world, which is, you know, very esoteric, very much about. Let's make the biggest wild guess that we possibly can off of the information that we think we know to. Here's beans, bullets, beds, and it's a very fixed commodity of water and fuel and maintenance parts. That fit my personality much better, and so it really was a natural fit for me to move over into the logistical world.
Speaker 3:And when you did make that push, becoming an officer, did you have any kind of major hurdles that you had to work through? At least from like leading people and being in a role? But I'm assuming because you were prior enlisted, it was just a natural fit of where you knew how you would fit into the organization as a leader.
Speaker 1:Well, I think in any organization, I think anytime you enter, it doesn't matter the organization you can do military, you can do civilian companies. I think it's all the same, in that you can walk in with whatever position or rank on your chest that you want. But until you understand the environment that you're in, it's not as easy to just be like, do this, and you know I mean obviously you know the Army grooms people to be able to do that. But you're not required to do that as a second lieutenant. You might be required to do it as a lieutenant colonel, a colonel or a major general in charge of a division, but by then you've got 20 to 35 years of experience behind you to be able to start to know what to do day one.
Speaker 1:But as a second Lieutenant you have no clue and so it's really shut up in color until you understand what you need to do and then you can start. It's like the inverse dynamic, right. You start off not saying a thing thing and then by the end of the time that you're in there, you know what you're talking about, so you can talk about things pretty intelligently. And then the army just says no, go to this other job. But then you reverse the triangle and you just keep going.
Speaker 3:That's all that happens that's exactly, uh, how I feel like I'm in groundhog day, so I work kind of technical surveillance job right now in terms of programmatics. In three weeks I'm going to take over robotics, so now I have to learn all of these new widgets and systems. And it's been like that for the last 16 years. You get proficient in a job. As soon as you get to that point of where you feel comfortable, the Army decides to stretch your capabilities and then take over another position, and it just constantly keeps going. So as an officer, you complete your time as a lieutenant and then you transition to be a company grade. Did you do your command as a recruiting company commander?
Speaker 1:No, so I did two commands. My first command was the 2nd Cavalry Regiment. I was the HHT commander for the Regimental Support Squadron for 2nd Cav and then when we deployed, they reconfigured my company as a forward support company instead of just a standard headquarters troop because of the mission set that we had. So I had a maintenance and medical platoon underneath me and so that was an interesting experience because I got a I essentially got a forward support company experience with a squadron staff attached to me instead of just being a standard, you know, headquarters company command, and that was unique. And then I left that. I actually came out of theater. We spent nine months in theater, I came out. I left a month. Nine months in theater, I came out. I left. A month later changed command and then three days after I changed command from second calf, I took command of the Lynchburg Recruiting Company here in Virginia.
Speaker 3:So you're in Virginia right now. Locally, I am. Yeah, I wish I would have known that we could have done this live. So I'm stationed in Fort Belvoir right now in Virginia.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm down here in Charlottesville.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so not that far away. That's a small world man. So transitioning from operational army into the recruitment company command, what was that like? Having to kind of change and now chase quotas and try to gain recruit numbers? What was that like switching jobs?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I really didn't think it was that big of a deal. I thought the volume got turned way down. I mean, I know that a lot of people will move into the recruiting world and think that the volume gets turned way up. But I mean, I came from combat, I mean, and I had, you know, my, my first four years as a company or as a, as a uh, my first four years as an army officer five, five years as the army officer, two of them were spent in theater.
Speaker 1:So, you know, I, I was, you know, coming out of the volume being turned way up. And then, when I moved into the recruiting world, it wasn't so much about chasing numbers as a recruiting company commander, you know, yeah, you're responsible for the mission, but your recruiters are the ones that do all the work. So really, it comes back to what I said at the beginning, which is how do you resource and enable your recruiters to be successful with the tools and everything to do the end state and the desired state so that they're successful and they know what they're supposed to be doing and then they execute?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like how it comes full circle. So working in the Army now I think one of the toughest jobs that someone could have is recruiting, because recruiting is struggling just from a perspective, specifically with the Army, I think we have the worst numbers across DOD. Don't hold me to that, but we did last year. I'd love to hear kind of like your thoughts on why the army is struggling to recruit and retain talent well without opening a huge can of worms.
Speaker 1:I think that the number one issue is the way that they've chosen to go about medical processing. I think that's really hindered the army, so I I'm going to leave that one alone. Anybody wants to learn about Genesis and MH Genesis? Then they can do any of the other research. The other issue, I think, just comes down to the recruiting mindset, at least when I was in. So it's been 10 years, I'm certain recruiting has developed at least a little bit since I left recruiting in 2017. So what? Seven years, not 10.
Speaker 1:And the mindset has always been recruiters, if nothing else, make phone calls, and phone calls at this point I don't think work. And so what you're doing is you're asking mostly you're asking an infantry soldier or a field artillery or anybody who's never really been, who's been, who's had to re-interact with the public in the way that they, that they were used to prior to the army, to then go back out and interact with the public in a way that puts the army in the best light and then finds people that are ultimately qualified to join the army and that's super hard. Qualified to join the Army, and that's super hard. It was hard in 2014 to 2017, when I was a company commander for Lynchburg Recruiting Company, and it's hard right now in 2024. There's no difference in how hard it was, I think, when you overlay some of the constraints that the Army and the military has chosen to do about the recruiting process. They've made it a little bit more challenging for themselves, without expanding roles or expanding or leveraging technology in better ways, and I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I know that the Go Army. They had an interesting model now of like really highlighting soldier stories, so where I don't know if you follow them on social media or not, but I really liked that idea of being able to highlight a soldier's journey, so depending on what their MOS is doesn't matter what their rank is and just kind of like a day in life of of what that soldier does, at least from like a technical perspective, of like what their actual MOS is. So I agree with you from the standpoint that they really have to leverage technology. But I was interested in what your perspective was being a recruiting company commander but now transition to the end of your career. So what drove you? You know, after 21 years, your major. I don't know if you were in the S3 role or an XO role, but what decided was the deciding factor for you to get out of the army and transition to civilian life.
Speaker 1:Well, I there's two things. Number one I looked at the next six years of my career and I realized that I did not want to move four more times and I said I'm not doing that. And the other reason was, you know, I had promised my wife that I would get to 20. We would look at what we need where we were and I realized that I wanted to focus more on my family than focus on the Army. And you know, many of my friends have moved on. I think a couple of my friends who were in my peer group are now all CSL select for battalion command.
Speaker 1:So I would have been in the same boat, but I don't regret any of it. I mean, I think I did my time. I served my country well and I served. You know, the Army was great but it was time and you know, trust me, you know when it's time. Everybody knows when it's time to leave the Army. Everybody knows when it's time to leave the Army. And you know some people will hold on and wait for the Army to say, no, you have to go. But everybody knows when it's time to go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that that is such an interesting perspective, like for you and I being in an organization for over 20 years, and then you just know when it's time to transition out and you have to make that leap and I think we've gotten better but we'll kind of transition to this next and what systems helped you. But, like, as a civilian, turnover rate is so high within organizations, I think that this average time when one of the Gallup polls is staying within an organization now is like two to three years and then you transition to get another job. I think it's interesting from that perspective is that you know you're dedicated to your craft, working through the ranks If you decide to actually stay and retire and now they changed their model, by the way, so you don't actually get a full retirement at 20 years. I don't really know what that is because I've grandfathered in, but in the military or in the civilian side you transition like every two to three years and it's easier to do.
Speaker 1:Well. So I will say this right, one of the things that you so I had a friend of mine that I met. He's a really good friend of mine. I met him when I was in the corporate world and his perspective on this was very interesting. He looked at it from the standpoint of you know, if I had stayed in till 30, I could have been a brigade commander. Right, I walk out. I walk out as a brigade commander potentially, who knows? But just say, let's just say 30 years, I made 06, right. So whether I brigade command or not, 06, I made my terminal rank.
Speaker 1:He had the phrase, from his perspective, that and a CEO told him I don't hire 52 year olds. So you know, there comes a time when you have to make a decision on what you want to do. Can you go to 52 or 55 years old and then say I'm never going to work another day in my life? I'm going to live off army pension, my TSP, whatever other investments I've ever done. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to sunset my career and I'll never work another day in 55. And then for the next 25 to 30 years, I'm just going to mow my lawn. Is that going to be satisfying to you and to some people that may be satisfying to me, it wasn't. I wanted to do something else.
Speaker 1:I was 42 years old when I left the military and I was like, well, I'm kind of in that middle age market where I'm not too old that I can't start another career, but I'm old enough that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to certain things inside organizations, and the one thing I will say is you know, don't look at job turnover on the civilian side as has anything to do with loyalty or or like fealty to an organization. They are completely different and you almost have to forget about the military. They are completely different and you almost have to forget about the military, about anything you did in the military and how that works, because effectively, you're a free agent. The moment you walk out, you are. You know, the military teaches you to put others before yourself. Right, that's like no, that's like numero uno of the value that the army wants you to understand. So you get that drilled into you for pick the time period that you're in the army and then you walk out and now it's well, the army's not there anymore. So who are you going to take care of Now.
Speaker 1:It's numero uno and you have to invert it and pay attention to what you want. So if you're in a career, if you're in a company for two years and another opportunity opens up and you like that and it pays more or it gives you better benefits, there is no harm, no foul in walking away from what you're currently doing to go do that. It's expected, so it's fine. Just know that. You don't have to just slug it out with a corporation for the next 20 years. If it's not what you want to do, go do something else or do nothing at all. Those are all options.
Speaker 3:I love that, how you just walk through that. I think that that's probably one of the realest feedback that I've gotten from anyone who's transitioned out of the military. So thank you for that. And it kind of reminds me of a story of my buddy. He was working with me in one of my last jobs Great job. He was a civilian working as a contractor within a PEO. He just was genuinely unhappy with that job, but it was a well-paying job From that standpoint six figures as a contractor. He decided to take a risk and go take a job that had more purpose. So I think at the end of the day, you have to really align. We call like head, heart, hand alignment. Are you aligned with what you're doing and do you have purpose in it? Because if you can have passion and purpose, I think that that's what equals fulfillment.
Speaker 1:No. The other part of it, though, is that everybody who leaves the military is lockstepped into a mindset that any job that they take has to be a pay raise. I'm moving from this job, I'm moving from this career, I'm moving from this rank to this position. I'm moving from 03 to 04. That's a pay raise. I'm now in charge of a bigger organization. I'm moving from 04 to 05, 05 to 06, whatever right, it all comes with a step pay increase.
Speaker 1:You leave the military. That's not the case. You could leave the job, you could go to a career, and you could be like well, this is a director role, and it could pay 30% less than what you were making in the military, without benefits, bonuses and all that other stuff. Or the flip side you could get out and make three times the amount that you were making in the military, but you're never home. So it all comes with the trade-off, and what you have to realize is that compensation is not tied to your rank or your position or whatever, and it's not tied to happiness. You have to determine what matters to you and then go from there. I would much rather take a 20% pay cut to work three miles down the road than earn that other 20% and not be home 26 weeks out of the year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it all goes back to what do you want. I love that. So, transitioning out, what different programs did you use? That kind of helped you with that, because I have a lot of veterans who listen to the show and I'd love to kind of get your experience of when you transitioned. What kind of helped you.
Speaker 1:So I used everything. I used everything under the sun. So in 2020, at the height of COVID, right, it was a lot of like whatever you could get. So I actually fought my way into a SkillBridge program, I think before Skillbridge kind of became more mainstream and more structured. So I was able to find my own Skillbridge and make it work here in the Charlottesville area. And then, if I found it, I applied for it.
Speaker 1:American Corporate Partners, I did the Commit Foundation, I did Hiring Our Heroes, I did man, there's a ton. I just can't remember them all at this point and I probably went through like 30 different resume reviews. I went through a whole bunch of different programs. The ones that mattered to me and the ones that made the most difference were American Corporate Partners, of which I am now a mentor, and the Commit Foundation. The Commit Foundation because, as a senior leader, the Commit Foundation's purpose is not to help you transition to find a job, although it does do that. Its purpose is to help you find you Because, remember, you were somebody before you joined the military. So who is that person and do you even like them? And then the second one was American Corporate Partners, because, as you're transitioning, what they will do is they will align you with a mentor in the industry by which you think you want to go into. So if you want to be, you know, like the guy who I was, who I was paired with was in aluminum. He was a senior vice president for aluminum manufacturing because I wanted to go into the manufacturing world. So he helped me get a job in the manufacturing world and helped me guide my career through all of that.
Speaker 1:Because if you're in the military, do you know what an offer letter looks like? Do you know what the benefits package looks like? Do you know how to negotiate your salary? Do you know how to do all of the things that most people who've never been in the military know how to do but you don't because you've never done it. So all of these things you know, the mentors that exist are there to help you and guide you through it. And so you got to. You got to use these programs. I mean, can you do it alone? 100%, anybody can do anything. Once is what I like to say. And you know, and so and I am a data point of one I have one experience doing this right, unless you've left the military, done your bit, came back in the military and then done it again. Then you're down a point. Then you have two experiences, but most everybody only has one. So use the leverage resources that you can. That's all. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so there's an absolute ton of resources out there. Now I think SkillBridge is. The number of SkillBridge programs that are out there are insane. And being in the acquisition side now I see a lot more opportunities to Skillbridge and I did not know that you could choose the Skillbridge based on the geographic location that you wanted to actually go and retire or try to find a job, like now. That's kind of the some of the structures and like Oak Ridge national labs or different types of national labs. There's so many different programs and skill bridges out there that kind of help transitions, service members and it's only growing every single day. So when you went through well, that's what I do.
Speaker 3:What do you do now?
Speaker 1:So aerial resupply coffee is a skill bridge partner. Oh, you beat what I do. What do you do now? So Aerial Resupply Coffee is a Skillbridge partner.
Speaker 3:Oh, you beat me too, because that's what I was going to ask next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so that's what I do. So, like I said, I'm a mentor in American Corporate Partners so I can get a line to anybody who signs up and wants to find a mentor. That's what I do, right, because I give back in the way that helped me and I want to help other people. So I tried, you know, I take phone calls and try to help as much as I can, and then you know.
Speaker 1:But but conversely, I also work with Hiring Our Heroes, which has the Skillbridge cohort program as well as military spouses as well as all sorts of other things in there beyond just active service. Because, again, the military spouses are really a component that nobody talks about but everybody like wants to help, but then nobody ever really like puts the effort towards doing it, and so now they're starting to do it a little bit more. So I've brought on military spouses for ARC as well as service members in Skillbridge roles, and I'll keep doing it because, quite honestly, I want people to understand what the corporate world is like, and while I personally may not be able to hire anybody in the way that people might want, or it might not be a good fit, at least Skillbridge gives you time to decompress from the military, which is a requirement and allows you to network and continue to learn about how the corporate world functions before you have to go do it yourself.
Speaker 3:I also love that you focus on military spouses, because I genuinely believe this that military spouses are one. They're like the NCOs, they're the backbone of the family. I could not do what I do if it was not for my wife. Hands down, she is a phenomenal lady. But number two the untapped resource potential within military spouses. They're so highly educated. My wife is a registered nurse. She hasn't worked for a couple of years since COVID hit because our son has asthma. But some of the qualifications and certifications that service members' spouses have is just absolutely inspiring and it's across the board. Like I remember having all these different soldiers in my organization and what their wives were doing and some of the skills that they had, and vice versa too. So that is genius and I love how you offer that program and you're trying to give back to the veteran community. But I would love to hear what sparked you to create Aerial Resupply Coffee and where did that name come from?
Speaker 1:Okay. So ARC started really as a byproduct of a couple of reasons. Number one, as I was transitioning out of the army and taking interviews and doing informational interviews and networking and meeting people and everything else, trying to find a job. The central theme was it was always over coffee, so I was like, okay, coffee is here, right. The second reason had to do with the fact that you know, if I, like, I'm not a big drinker and unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective of it the culture of the military involves a lot of alcohol and I didn't want to do anything with alcohol, right, I just didn't want to. That wasn't something I wanted to do. And then, third, I heard an ad, and I saw an ad for a competitor, which I'm sure anybody can figure out which one it is, and I realized very quickly that there wasn't anything that spoke to the combat service support side of the military. It was all soft-based, right. And so I'm like, well, why doesn't it? And so I looked in our research and I was like, well, if it doesn't exist, I can make it exist.
Speaker 1:So ARC the name came from the fact that when I was in 2nd Cavalry Regiment and when I was in 1st Brigade 4th Infantry Division, when we were both in Afghanistan, we did a lot of sling load missions that had to do with aerial delivery, and while aerial delivery by itself is an Air Force function, it's not an Army function. The Army is going to find a way to do whatever it wants to do, regardless of what the Air Force is supposed to do. And so that's what we did. And you know, I had a chance to kick a couple pallets out the back of an aircraft, which was kind of cool. And so you know I decided, hey, I'm just going to lean heavily on the logistics side and lean on the aerial delivery side and create it ARC.
Speaker 3:So, going through that and I think you did a genius. Something you just said is that, hey, everything your competitor all focused on like the soft community, but there is no one that is filling this void, so here's a problem set that I can go out and actively fill, and the culture of coffee.
Speaker 3:So for me at least, being an officer, I remember drinking so much coffee especially doing like field training exercises is I would just fill Nalgene bottles over and over and over and it was like instant coffee. I remember you probably take your jet boil out I don't know if this is before your time or not, but we'd have jet boil. We'd make our little cowboy coffee. So coffee is something that I correlate directly to the army, because everything that I've ever done, I've always had coffee, even during deployments, something that I've done. But what was the struggles of you having to create a brand from scratch and how did you work through that?
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't really struggle Like that's the thing, like all of this. So well, first, about coffee. I didn't do jet boil coffee in the Army. I didn't actually start drinking coffee until about halfway through my Army career, and the only reason I did it is because I was a battle captain for 2nd Cavalry Regiment and all of a sudden, it was or not 2nd Cav. It was no, no, it was 2nd Cav. I was about. No, no, I was in 1st Brigade, 4id. We were, we were in Afghanistan and I was working 20 hours a day and I could not sustain myself and I hated coffee. But I was like, well, it's the only thing here, and at the time, and even now, you know, dla will issue coffee in bags and it's all Maxwell House coffee, and so it's like if you're used to drinking it, you're used to drinking Maxwell House, right, well, I don't like Maxwell House coffee, but I drank it because it's what was there. And so when I started ARC, you know I mean every, every challenge that I ever, you know. I guess it's not fair for me to say that there weren't challenges. I think what I did was I just looked at it as knocking the domino down. Right, there's one more domino in front of you.
Speaker 1:So how do you create irreversible momentum? By knocking down small bits at a time. How do I create an LLC? I have no idea. I go to YouTube. How do I create a brand? I have no idea. I go to YouTube. How do I create a brand? I have no idea. I go to YouTube. How do I start roasting coffee? I have no idea. I go to YouTube. Where do I find the equipment? I have no idea. I go find a local supplier and talk to them. How do I get green coffee? I hunt down and do my research on the internet. How do I do marketing labeling? Build a website, SEO email stuff you name it right. Building, build a website, seo email stuff you name it right. How do I do that? There's a way, because I'm not the first one to ever do it and other people have done it before me. So where do I go to get that information? I go to YouTube, tiktok, instagram, because plenty of other people have done it. So how do I then take it and apply it to what I want to do? And that's what I did and that's how ARC, the brand, came out of thin air. I then take it and apply it to what I want to do. And that's what I did and that's how ARC, the brand, came out of thin air. I mean, really it was. You know, I said to myself one day. I looked at my wife and said I'm going to start a company. And she's like are you crazy? And I said, no, this is what I want to do. And she's like okay. And 30 days later, arc had a website and was selling coffee. I didn't tell anybody, I didn't pre-sale, I didn't do any marketing. The only people who knew was my wife and my mom, and that was it. And my mom was my first customer and I just kind of lit it up and told everybody what I was doing. And people are like huh, like where did that come from? And then, ever since then, I've been bootstrapping this the whole way.
Speaker 3:So you've made some amazing achievements and I've been kind of following you too on LinkedIn. Like recently, your copy sold on Amazon but also it's in Kroger's now. I don't think is it on base in the commissaries yet.
Speaker 1:No, that's a hard nut to crack, so if anybody who's listening to this wants to help me do that, I would be very thankful for that.
Speaker 3:So one of my guests that I had on robert irvine, like his fit crunch bars, which I absolutely love, his fit crunch bars I don't know if it would be a good point of contact, but I could at least put you in contact to see if maybe that could help. Um, but yeah sure why is that such a hard nut to crack?
Speaker 1:I'm curious well, it's because it's the way that again. So you have to understand how do companies do business right, how do companies buy things? I mean, this is so like you're in the acquisition side, right. My background is in procurement and acquisition management beyond the army, from the civilian side, so like it's understanding how the supply chain works, from everything that has to do post-marketing in the front end of the business to all the way downstream to where you're getting raw supplies, and so for me that's the easy part. I was able to do everything besides marketing and sales because I knew how to do it and if you. But you got to understand that other businesses do the same thing right.
Speaker 1:So the commissary has a way of doing business where it sources all of the products that you see there, and it's really two ways.
Speaker 1:I mean many people can go in and put a bunch of comment cards in the commissary and say I want this brand, I want this brand, I want this brand, and then commissary managers can do it.
Speaker 1:But if you're doing large scale, then you go into planograms, you go into the way that the commissary wants to buy things, what it wants to present, what brands it wants to present, how it wants to distribute and then, ultimately, do you have the capacity to meet any of that? I can roast 400 pounds of coffee a month and the commissary is going to go thanks, that's not good enough. And because we're not going to buy 400 pounds, we're going to buy 400 pallets. So can you produce 400 pallets and that's? And do you have the national reach and do you have enough interest and sales generated so that we're not buying coffee that's just going to sit on the shelf Because they're going to buy it? It's not commission-based. So that's where you just have to understand how do people do business, and so that's why the commissary and APHIS, which are two separate entities, do business.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had General Thurgood, keith Thurgood, do business. Yeah, I had a general Thurgood, keith Thurgood. He was the CEO of Apey's not too long ago and just picking his brain, but that sounds like that's an aspiring goal to achieve, man. If you can get in the commissary, at least from my eyes, you've made it. If you can sell any of your products in any store, especially Kroger's, in my mind you've made it. And it's inspiring that you've bootstrapped this from like the entire way. And it's also inspiring that you really haven't ran into any major hurdles. You just use that entrepreneurial spirit and, I think, just knocking down each target, one target at a time, one target at a time, and now you gain momentum. And now that you have momentum, it's much easier for you to work through hard obstacles when they are encountered. Have you started growing your company at all? Uh, in terms of just like the number of people, or are you still doing like most of the work?
Speaker 1:well, I'm still doing a lot of the work. Um, I do have a full-time employee that is in my sales and business development role. And then I just recently I think I haven't confirmed yet because I don't think the offer has been accepted but I'm hiring a part-time person to help me in the manufacturing space, only because I can't do all of the operational stuff and sales and marketing and videos and all the things that I do. I mean, something's got to give. So I got to buy some of my time back and I need people. I want people to grow with me. So that's the goal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's the next step, brother. Like just kind of hearing you is like now what can you take off your plate and then hire other people and then now you're back in that leadership role of maintaining like a resilient culture and developing the culture within your business that you want. Uh, that that's. That's really cool. So, transitioning to your social media, so you are absolutely killing it, I think, on linkedin. Every time I go there I see the hammer providing some wisdom. So where? Where did that come from?
Speaker 1:I mean pick, pick an 06 at any level that you've ever been and you know exactly who the hammer is dude, it's spot one and I love it yeah, trust me, I mean not everybody's like that, but the stereotype is there and, honestly, like I've run into a few people, even at the 05 level, who inspired the hammer, and so it's very clear that I mean I knew what I was doing when I, when I built it. My wife hates the character but she let me phrase it she doesn't hate what the hammer says, she hates the way it looks because of the filter. So I mean it is what it is, I don't care, I think it's funny and honestly, I like make you know what's interesting is. You know there's. So I follow a lot of different creators.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of friends in the creator space, people who I mean they're not like close friends but people who have really resonated with, like Mandatory Fun Day, you know Austin.
Speaker 1:Like Habitual Line Crosser Ethan, you know Tyler's Buttersworth, like these people who are all in the space that are doing it, that are doing it. And one of the things that I like about what and what they do and what and what many other people do is they focus on making fun of the military at the company and below level, but almost nobody makes fun of senior leaders and they're not immune to being made fun of, but nobody wants to do it because usually they're in the military and so they don't want to get, you know, they don't want to get slapped because they made fun of, you know, the army chief of staff or whatever. And so, like I'm just going to mock it from my perspective, because some of these people are straight characters and it's interesting because, having transitioned out of the military, I know exactly what they're going to be like the moment they walk out and the only jobs that are available to them are EY, deloitte and McKenzie, because they're the only ones that are pulling those people forward that will put up with those personalities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100% man. The first time I saw that I thought it was absolutely hilarious, and then I just started thinking of all the different 06s at least when I was in the infantry that that hit the bill on, and it goes back to the same concept of how you started the coffee company, Like, hey, if no one is doing this, I should do it, and they're not immune to it, which I love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean the hammer is funny on LinkedIn. Unfortunately, that's you. You know it doesn't translate well and if you aren't, if you haven't been brought into it, it does kind of shock you a little bit because you're not really sure what you're looking at. So you know, but again, it's it, you know, because I'm marketing all this myself and I'm doing the term is called guerrilla marketing right, I'm very much trying to market this in a way that I know how, because I don't have the resources or the money to spend on, like you know, a refined national or even local marketing campaign that's really going to drive, you know, the business forward. So I'm using the technology and the resources that I have, which is video, social media, the stuff that I'm doing to build the business and to get the name out there, which is important to me. If people understand ARC and they see a Hammer video and they're like man, that guy's an idiot, but they still know that it's the Hammer and they still know that it's Aerial Resupply Coffee, at least now they know the brand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you're genius and you're resonating to a portion of at least the veteran community as well, so I think I think it's a genius model, at least using the marketing and the tools that you have currently, right now, so, kind of looking forward, what are some of the future projects that you're wanting to work towards?
Speaker 1:Well, with ARC, I mean, you know it's really about expansion and growth. You know my target this year, you know I've always I've given myself a five year plan to hit eight figures. So that's the goal and an annual revenue so let's go Right. And so, like my, you know, and so I am looking at continuing to expand into Kroger. I'm actually I'm here locally in the three stores in Charlottesville, but I'm authorized to be in 33 across the Mid-Atlantic region once the sales numbers start picking up and we start seeing how it's doing.
Speaker 1:I have two major sports partnerships, one with Virginia Tech, virginia and the University of Virginia. So I'm looking at that. I'm also looking at continuing to find distributors or other retail outlets that are interested in carrying ARC. But again, it's all about building the base, and so manufacturing is important to me, and so building the model here, having my first roastery, my brick and mortar, that is not only a retail outlet but is also my distribution hub right, is the way forward.
Speaker 1:So, between that, growing Amazon and really continuing to push ARC into the consciousness of everybody is kind of my goal, at least in the near term. Long term, you know, I think I probably have this like pie in the sky idea that I want to take on the VFW and the American Legion, because I don't feel like they're two organizations that are really catering themselves to the current generation and aren't really setting themselves up for future generations. And so, you know, what I want to do is kind of build, potentially, places where you know that's if they want to come in, in and they want to feel like they're part of something that doesn't revolve around alcohol, then maybe that's what that is and we'll see what that looks like.
Speaker 3:That's a powerful thought man. I think that definitely resonates. I look forward to seeing how that kind of shapes out in your mind.
Speaker 2:It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same four questions that I ask every guest on the Tales of Leadership podcast Be brief, be brilliant, be present and be gone.
Speaker 3:Question one what do you believe separates a good leader from a great leader?
Speaker 1:I think good leaders are only able to move an organization to the next step. Great leaders are the ones that can inspire people to go to a vision beyond what anybody was hoping to achieve.
Speaker 3:Yep, spot on, brother. So question two what is one resource that you could recommend to our listeners to help them on their journey?
Speaker 1:Like leadership journey or just any journey.
Speaker 3:Well, I think leadership and I'll preface this is I think leadership and life go hand in hand, because you have to learn to lead yourself before you can lead anyone else. So dual hat, it could be either one.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I think you know, at least in the military, I think you know reading. Obviously, if you like to read or audio books can help you. I think the one resource that I will say that especially and I'm going to tailor this to the entrepreneurial world because I think that it helps people understand as an entrepreneur, you're doing it by yourself all the time anyway. So if you ever read or anything about Gary Vaynerchuk, the guy has a very unique perspective on how to be an entrepreneur in this time period and this space in the social media realm, and understanding his perspective of it has helped me lead myself and helped me understand how best to tackle all of this. I guess the best way to say it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's great brother. I don't think we necessarily get that kind of perspective all the time. That's why I love having different people on who have different backgrounds and where you've been this entrepreneur, I think that's a great resource. So question three if you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 1:Slow down. I think that there's always this rush to always do the next thing and to try to make it happen as fast as possible, rushing through rank, rushing through positions, rushing through everything else, instead of understanding what the moment actually is and then developing yourself. In that moment, like I think, many people, just breeze by something and they're like, well, that job sucked, I'm glad I'm out of it, when they could have like learned a lot about themselves, not forget the tasks. But look, work will come and go, people will hate the work and everybody hates the work. Right, it never. Nobody wants to build con ops and be the AS3 or the assistant to the assistant to the assistant S4. Nobody wants to do that and that work sucks.
Speaker 3:But what did you learn about yourself in that role is really what matters vice brother and I think I could definitely use that right now with the current job that I'm in. So last question how can our listeners find you and how can they add value to you?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, if you look for aerial resupply coffee on Google or social media, you're going to find me right. You can find me on my website, which is aerial resupply coffeecom, and if you're in the Virginia area, come by the store in Charlottesville. I'm on Google Maps, it's pretty easy to find. But in terms of adding value, like look, I just say this ARC is all about support I'm taking and I very much have a support forward mentality. So like, just if you're interested in what I'm doing, share it with a friend, share what I do with other people, and you know come on down.
Speaker 3:We'll have a cup of coffee, Michael. It's been a pleasure of having you on the show again. Dude, Thank you so much for being patient getting this time to actually work out, and I hope you have a great evening, bro.
Speaker 1:Hey, thanks for having me, man.
Speaker 3:All right team. It's time for our after action review. Great episode with Michael. So my top three takeaways this one's interesting.
Speaker 3:So the first one that I took was influence without authority when I was transitioning through my career in the military, especially leaving the infantry, being an HHC company commander and then transitioning into acquisitions. The farther I get down this rabbit hole, the more I need to lead other people when I don't have direct authority and influence. And that is hard to do and it's a skill that you need to learn. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to really one thing just being genuinely authentic and having a positive attitude and a positive mindset. If you can do those things, you show up authentic and you're always positive and you have charisma you will do well in leading other people. But that's something that is definitely a key takeaway that Michael laid out clearly, especially in the civilian world. In the military it's easy because the way the structure is established within the military, it's much harder to lead other people when you don't have that level of influence. So when I was an HHC company commander, I think that's a really good example, because I had all these different staff sections that I had to lead and get to do things. But I had to get them to do things because it was for the common good of the team and I didn't really have any authority over them to make them do it.
Speaker 3:The second key takeaway that I have is being able to adapt. I think Michael has a phenomenal story from the sense that he's had several different transitions. So he joined the army I love it that he joined the army because he needed some motivation in his fourth degree of contact and then he transitioned from being enlisted to officer and then transitioned from officer out of the military into the civilian workforce and then transitioned from the workforce into what he's doing right now an entrepreneur and that takes a level of resilience or grit that a lot of people don't have. But it goes back to the same concept of leadership right, that it is a journey, life is a journey. We have to constantly be able to reinvent ourself, and what I mean by reinvent ourself is adapt to the situation that we have at hand.
Speaker 3:And the last key takeaway that I have is focus on yourself. Sometimes you have to make hard decisions, but at the core of that and Michael laid it out beautifully was there's a trade-off when that hard decision is made, are you going to be okay with the consequences, for example, me being in the military? What is the right time for me to get out of the military? I'm not there yet. Will I know? Most likely I will, but the trade-off will be do I want to spend more time with my family and then, when I get out of the military, do I want to chase a job for title and money, or do I want to spend more time with my family? You need to focus on yourself, and what I mean by focusing on yourself it's also a family calculus. You have to do the right thing, not just for yourself, but also your family.
Speaker 3:All right, team, do me a favor. If you like this podcast, you like the content that I push out, it would mean the world to me if you help me grow by sharing this podcast Number one, me. If you help me grow by sharing this podcast number one. Number two go rate this podcast and leave a review on whatever listening platform that you prefer to listen to tells the leadership. And number three, you can go follow me on social media or you can go to mcmillianleadershipcoachingcom and you can read all the additional leadership resources that I provide to you 100% for free, because I want you to be armed and equipped in this world to be the best leader that you possibly can.
Speaker 2:As always, team, I'm your host, Josh McMillian, saying every day is a gift. Don't waste yours.
Speaker 3:I'll see you next time you.
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