Tales of Leadership
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Tales of Leadership
#114 Robert Yarnall - From Battlefield Lessons to Everyday Leadership
Robert Yarnall is the VP of Development & Impact at the Robert Irvine Foundation. A retired Master Gunnery Sergeant with 25 years of service in the USMC, Robert also spent 20 years as a civics teacher and coach. In addition to his military and teaching career, he is a community leader, involved in local government and charitable organizations, and a small business owner.
Connect with Robert Yarnall:
-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-yarnall-the-mission-makers/
-Website: https://robertirvinefoundation.org/
-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RobertIrvineFoundation
🫡 My Why: I’ve seen the cost of poor leadership — how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in the worst cases, lead to lives lost, including through suicide. That’s why I’ve committed my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actionable insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons.
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We talk about it all the time with our Reuniting the Brave program. You know, it's the people that you've gone through the most challenging times with that you're going to have the closest relationship with. Uh, you know, and we tend to talk about the good times, but I I think about it all the time when when I get together with Marines that I served with over different periods, and you know, what are the things you talk about and laugh about the most are the at the time, the suckiest times. Yeah, I remember being stuck out there in 102 degrees and the winds were blowing, blew over the shower tents. We didn't shower for 26 days. You know, those are those are the kind of moments that you look back at and you laugh with, but you both went through that shared misery or that shared trial, you know, the the tough times, you know, where you've lost people. But those are the ones that I think bring you together and and really make a tight bond that is inseparable. And that's I I I look at the strongest friends, friendships that I have and relationships I have, and they're with people that I went through the toughest times of my life with.
SPEAKER_00:You're listening to the Tell as a Leadership Podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader. What I like to call how. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership.
SPEAKER_03:All right, team, welcome back to the Tell as a Leadership Podcast. I am your host, Josh McMillian, and I'm on a journey to become the best leader that I possibly can. And I will do that by bringing on purposeful, accountable leaders, what I like to call pals. And a pal is someone who leads with intention, integrity, and makes an impact. I'll also go through my self-study, my leadership habits, and my journaling experiences, which I share through the lens of my own leadership journey. But here's my why, and it's important to continue to communicate this. I've seen the cost of poor leadership, how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in worst cases, lead to a loss of lives, including through suicide. That's why I'm committing my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through tells of leadership, I share real stories and actual insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader that people remember you for for the right reasons. So here are some quick free resources before we begin. You can go to my uh link tree slash tells of leadership. Everything is listed down there to include all of the social medias that you can go follow on. But one of the key ones is McMillian Leadership Coaching.com slash tells of leadership. There you'll be able to find any podcast that I've already recorded in the past to include individual blog articles that accompany those podcasts when we have phenomenal leaders on. And the reason is because it's all free. I want you to be armed with the right tools to make uh the best decisions uh as you continue on your leadership journey. But on today's episode, uh, outside of the free resources, I am bringing you a purposeful, accountable leader, Robert Yarnell or Bob. He is the VP of Development and Impact at the Robert Irvine Foundation, a retired master gunnery sergeant with 25 years of service in the United States Marine Corps. Rob has also spent over 20 years on civics for a teacher and a coach. In addition to his military and teaching career, he is a committed leader involved in local government and charitable organizations, as well as small business owner. This is a phenomenal episode, and I really mean that. As always, stay to the very end, and you'll get the top three takeaways from this episode. Bob, welcome to the Tells of Leadership Podcast. How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01:I'm doing great, Josh. I appreciate you having me on the show.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, so talking about it before, uh, but uh it's always an honor to have people on the show that continue to serve. And that's why I'm really excited to like dig into your leadership journey because you've served both in a capacity in the military arms, but you also are a coach, uh, a teacher, and then now working in a nonprofit organization. So you continue to serve. And I always find it for me selfishly the best conversations uh to learn from people like you who have led on both sides, not just wearing the uniform, but outside of the uniform. So I'm really excited to dig into uh what makes Bob tick.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a great question. Um, many years of of experience, I always say trial and error, failure, picking yourself back up, learning from some great mentors. Um, you know, it's it's 56 years in the making.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. That's uh that's gonna be the challenge in about an hour. How can we distill all of that down um into an episode? But I will do my best. And uh I always love it starting off with just the same question that we have everyone on the show with is how would you define leadership in your terms?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I I think for me, leadership is one serving your people. You know, if if you take care of those that you're leading, they will always take care of you. Um it's self, you know, selfless leadership in that way. You know, it's always about taking the blame for anything that goes wrong, but passing on the credit for everything that goes right, knowing your people and and caring, truly caring about them. When I say knowing them, it's you know it's not just, hey, what's your name? It's knowing their situation, uh, knowing where they're coming from, knowing what their goals are and how you can help them achieve that and and make them a better person. You know, far too often we we do a lot of talk and we don't do as much listening. And I've kind of adopted in in my life uh something I work really hard on is listen to learn and understand, not to respond. And I think when you do that, it really forces you to sit back and listen more intently. Um and you you know it's it's a great piece in terms of building those relationships. And uh leadership is all about relationships, whether you're you're leading up, you're leading down, um, or you're leading your peers. It's it's all about relationship building, building that trust and that integrity that you know you know this is what we're doing, and and you're on the same path together, having a clear vision.
SPEAKER_03:That was already fire in terms of me already trying to scribble down notes because I I I use this podcast in a way for me too to become a better leader. And I have already taken a half a page of notes from just your definition alone, which I which I love. And I think one of the things that quote, I've never heard that before, but listen to learn and understand not to respond. I wish uh someone would have told me that when I was just starting out in combat arms because I was a javelin. I'd fire, forget, and I would uh just act because I thought that that's what leadership meant is that you had to be decisive and you had to go take action. And if you weren't doing that, then you weren't leading from the front. Um so that that's phenomenal advice. And this would probably be a great place just to start easing into it. How did you begin to develop that type of mindset?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, as a as a young Marine, um, I was a corporal filling a gunnery sergeant's billet. So, you know, I I worked with a lot of senior enlisted members, but I was leading a logistics shop, and I used to get really high strung when things would happen, and you know, it was, hey, I gotta make this happen in this way because otherwise they're not gonna look at me the same, they're gonna run over me. And I I had a a major that I worked for, uh, who you know, he just kind of when I'd come into him like, sir, we need to relax. What's the situation? He'd he'd I'd give him the situation, he'd digest it, okay. He'd make a phone call, problem solved. And like I I think that taught me like you don't have to go off, absorb all the information, absorb the situation. It's not a crisis. You know, this isn't something that's going to be life or death today or tomorrow. Like, what do we need to do to solve this? What steps do we need to take? And and that really became for me, I think the best learning experience in that whole process of listen, get the information, understand the information, and then take the steps to remedy it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, there's uh I think in the Marine Corps they developed the OODA loop. I'm not even going to try to say it off the now. Um, but it's similar to that process in the military or in the army, we call it a seals halt. Um, and then I kind of redefined it as stop. So stop, take a tactical pause, observe your surroundings and pursue a purpose. And sometimes when I find my heart starting to flutter and like that gut feeling of like, hey, Josh, you gotta go. I I sometimes take a tactical pause and just realize, all right, let the environment shape um until it is truly time to decide. So that was great advice. And I'm sure early on in your career that was a blessing too, as you continue to advance through your journey. Um, but I would love to start too of what was your story to serve? Everyone has a story, and the Marine Corps is usually one of those branches that you either want to test yourself or it comes from like a family background. So I'm curious, like what drove you to to join the Marine Corps and serve?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I have a couple of both of those actually. Um I had a cousin who was two-time uh Vietnam tour. Uh he just retired as a colonel not that long ago. Just a huge inspiration to me as a kid and was probably one of the most influential people that that I had in my life, even though I didn't see him that often. Uh, but when I did, there was always that respect, and and it kind of drove me in that direction. But it was also, you know, coming out of um a divorce situation and not really having a lot of guidance, I really wanted to challenge myself, and I figured that the best way to do that was looking into the military and and then I applied for an NROTC scholarship. I didn't get that. I did re meet the person uh 20 plus years later. We shared a cubicle in the uh history division in Quantico, who scored 20 points higher on the SATs than I did. He went to Villanova. I went to Paris Island. Uh, but you know, it was that challenge of and that giving back that service aspect. Uh I I had the opportunity to do some community service as a as a youngster through my mom and and through high school and and National Honor Society, where we we gave back whether it was a Special Olympics or um you know doing community projects, and I just wanted to take it to the next level. And I I felt that serving our country um you know doesn't get any better than that. And if I was going to do it, I wanted to challenge myself and hence the Marine Corps.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I I will tell you, I'm sure the Marine Corps got the better deal of the bet being a non-commissioned officer through your pipeline versus being an officer. And I struggled with that when I was just starting off, too, because I grew up in rural West Virginia. There's not that many opportunities, and I'm not joking when I say it's the coal mines or you get lucky and go to college or you get a scholarship. And I I was almost on the fence of joining the Marine Corps. I did the delayed entry program because I wanted to go test myself. Um, and then my buddy taught me he's like, hey, you could go be a cadet at a college and commission and still do everything you wanted to do. I wanted to jump out of planes and go to ranger school and do all those crazy stuff that a young man wants to do. And for whatever reason, I remember my military cruiter at the time, and this is you know uh what 2005. So Iraq is, you know, pretty hot and heavy, and Afghanistan is just starting to formulate. They they actually let me go, which I think nowadays they would have probably been like crucified if they let someone go who goes through MEPs already. Uh, but everything worked out, and um it's been a blessing to be an officer from that perspective. But I guarantee you the Marine Corps has probably had a phenomenal non-commissioned officer, and you probably touched more lives because what I've learned as I grow in rank, I lose that connection with soldiers. And as non-commissioned officers grow through rank, they tend to um continue to have those touch points until you make the rank of a sergeant major, and then you gotta get stuck in the cubicle with another officer.
SPEAKER_01:That was one of the reasons I love being a master gunny, because you know, obviously you're still an E9, but you you have a lot more touch points out in the field with with the troops. So, you know, there's those three those three ranks. Hitting sergeant was kind of that first one because now you really get that opportunity to lead. Gunny, you you you start to get the you know the ability to lead up and down, but you still have a lot of touch point with the troops. As a master guns, now I get to go and be a mentor, um, both to those you know, other staff NCOs and and the young NCOs. So, you know, but having that touch point, wow, what a what an honor that was. And and being able to help mold and develop so many young Marines, and and they helped mold me too. I mean, that's again, it's you learn from those above you and you learn from those below you as well. And I I think that they taught me just as much as I taught them.
SPEAKER_03:It would be uh something that I've always admired about the Marine Corps is just when when you go through once a Marine, always a Marine, right? Like everyone's heard that slogan. But what did it mean to you? Like when you were going through there and you're challenging yourself. I and I don't know your background, um, but once you finally made it, when you you were a Marine and you shipped off to your first duty location, what were some of the the feelings that you had?
SPEAKER_01:Well, one, I I I use this all the time now when I'm talking to, especially in veterans groups or anybody that's struggling. Um when you complete basic training officer candidates school, you know, just not just in the Marine Corps, in any branch of the service, it makes you a one percenter. Um, you know, what do I mean by one percenter? Less than one percent of the population is willing to step forward and serve. You know, and and to equate that, less than one percent of the population will complete a marathon. Less than one percent of the population becomes a Division I athlete, less than one percent of the population obtains their doctorate. So when you completed basic training, you've already put yourself into an elite category of achievers in the United States. And and I think sometimes, you know, uh we forget that because yeah, we did it, okay, great. We we moved on now, we've done our career, we've done our four years, whatever it is, time that you serve. We sometimes forget the fact that we are already an elite company by what we've achieved in our life. And that's where we start from. That's where we should be starting from, not anywhere else. Start from the fact that you are already an elite achiever, and if you've achieved that, you can achieve anything else that you you put your mindset to. Um, but I I think the confidence that you come out of it with, you know, there's that balance between cockiness and and confidence. I just like to say we're we're very confident in our abilities, and and they as part of it, it builds you up into that. Um you know, you're you're taking on now responsibility. Heck, I turned 18 in boot camp. So when I got that to my first Call of Duty station, you know, young 18-year-old, wow, you're put in charge of different things that you know most people wouldn't ever do until they're 35, 40. Um so you you know, you have the opportunity to learn and grow. Again, I I attribute a lot of my success to the folks that I worked with when I first came in the Marine Corps because they mentored me, they gave me opportunity to learn and grow. Not that I didn't make mistakes, but they didn't crucify me for my mistakes. They let me learn from those mistakes. Now, if I made those same repeat mistakes over and over again, I'm sure I would have been crucified. But, you know, having the opportunity to make those mistakes and grow from them and continually being challenged by giving more opportunities every time you know you accomplish one. Hey, okay, well, you can do that. Let's see what else you can do. Um, constantly challenging you to improve, not just professionally, but also you know, personally, and develop your your leadership and your your own drive as a as a human being.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think that that was a challenge that I had too, like working through the ranks of um iteratively developing, like the same concept through uh engineering of how we iteratively develop something into a production level and then continuing. But for my own personal development, like I had all the schoolhouse stuff. Um, I went through Ranger School, I did all those things, I had all the tabs when I showed up to my my unit, but there's a difference of actually implementing leadership and trying to influence others to do things, especially when it's like extremely uncomfortable. And I I know that you deployed to um uh desert uh shield, desert storm part of that. And I mean, I deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, but like there was something different for me of like taking over my platoon in Afghanistan after going through a schoolhouse and then like, all right, well, this is it. Like it's and I always fall back to like deeds, not words, is that um how how can I model the behaviors that I want out of my men, and then how can I influence them from your perspective, like from the Marine Corps and then going through as a non-commissioned officer and your experience in Desert Storm, what was that like going from a garrison environment as a leader to hey, we're we're in the show now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think you know, I was actually got promoted to sergeant while we were we were deployed on a Westpac um when things broke out and we're supposed to supposed to be heading to Australia instead made the hard turn, right? Um, you know, got stuck out on a ship for 102 straight days, most of it in general quarters. Um doing circle squares, drop an anchor. He said, you know, I had the sauna. I had I when you caught an office space, I wouldn't really call it an office. It was like a closet, but the diesel exhaust vent came up through our little kooby. So we had we had our own personal sauna every time they kicked into diesel generators. But I I think you know, I think it's just like anything else in leadership. How do you demonstrate you know what should be done, you know, by uh any other way but doing it yourself too? Like I I would never ask anybody that's in my charge to do something that I'm not willing to do. And quite frank, it's nice it's about willing to do. You know, hella sandbags need filled. I'm out there filling sandbags with them. I'm not just sitting back, well, I'm I'm the sergeant, so you go do it. To me, they're gonna be much more willing to do it if you are there with them. Um and not not that you're above that. Now, are there times where yes, where I you as a leader are called to other duties and and you have responsibilities to the people that you know are in charge of you, and therefore, hey, I'm tasking you, put that young corporal in charge. All right, you you're tasked with getting this done. But I think if they see you and your willingness to do what you're asking them to do, they are definitely going to be more likely to follow you. And and that doesn't come just overnight either. That comes from what you exhibit and that trust in that um you know, but belief in your integrity and you as a leader. And again, that goes back to that relationship building. Did you did you develop that bond with them along the way that hey they're gonna follow you? And um, you know, it's certainly different when you're going from all right, well, we break at 11 30, go to child, go to the gym, come back to work, and 4 30 we're going to the beach to now we're in a situation where you're you know definitely a different scenario in the first Gulf War compared to you know Afghanistan and Iraq. Um, but now we're we're gonna be navigating the mine, floating minefields in the Gulf. All right, we need people up on the flight deck, MVGs, um, looking out for mines. You know, it's a it's a scary time of the scary of the unknown and what you might wind up uh encountering. So, you know, showing them the confidence and you know being that leader that they can they can follow and get behind, I think is is a big part of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I a hundred percent agree with that. Is that uh I think one thing that I stood out from my peers as I like continue to move up through the ranks is that I I remember this like old commercial um or a newspaper clipping actually, and it had like this leader, and it's been overused, you'll find it on LinkedIn everywhere, versus a manager, and then it's someone trying to move a ball or big stone up a hill. The leader's actively helping the team move it, where the manager's sitting on top and he's directing the team to do that. And I think like you just said it beautifully, and that's the art of science and leadership, is that sometimes we have to direct because we have to operate with mission command because there's just so much to do and you can't do everything. So, what can you delegate that other people can do just as well as you so you can focus on the higher level tasks at hand? And then when do you need to get your hands dirty with the team to show them, like, hey, I'm not above doing this work, I'm not special, I have a rank title, but that doesn't mean that my life is of any different value than yours. So let's let's get after it. Um, that's that's a beautiful way of like summing that up. And I like how you talked about too of like the the process of leadership. One of the key pillars of that is building relationships. And I've definitely learned through uh crucible events, you build way stronger relationships to stand the test of time versus just like a normal nine to five job. What what about you, same?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. Um, we talk about it all the time with our reuniting the brave program. Um, you know, it's the people that you've gone through the most challenging times with that you're going to have the closest relationship with. Uh, you know, and we tend to talk about the good times, but I I think about it all the time when when I get together with you know Marines that I served with over different periods. And, you know, what are the things you talk about and laugh about the most are the at the time the suckiest times. Yeah, I remember being stuck out there in 102 degrees and the winds were blowing, blew over the shower tents. We didn't shower for 26 days. You know, those are those are the kind of moments that you look back at and you laugh with, but you both went through that shared misery um or that shared trial, you know, the the the tough times, you know, where you've lost people, but those are the ones that I think bring you together the and and really make a tight bond that is inseparable. And that's I I I look at the strongest friends, friendships that I have and relationships I have, and they're with people that I went through the toughest times of my life with.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. What's so funny or ironic about that is that it's usually humor that we find and like those really terrible moments that kind of get us through it. Uh, I remember some of the my worst memories, uh, and some of the best friends that I have now is that we would just be laughing hysterically when a normal person was like kind of going through that environment. They're like, you guys are absolutely crazy. Well, I think to be a one percenter, like you just talked about, you have to be mentally uh on the edge. I I guess I'll just say that. Like you have to be willing to like put yourself in very uncomfortable situations and find humor in it. I agree with that. So, kind of balancing or kind of continuing down, uh, when did you, because I know this is a deep passion of yours, when did you start developing a love for mentoring and coaching? Was that in the Marine Corps or when you started to make a transition?
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's it's funny you asked that because it was a topic that came up recently. Good friend Mick Hunt talks about your why and then your because. And it made me think just literally, we were out on a hike a couple of weeks ago with my wife, and you know, why why do I have that desire for mentorship? And I think it really goes back to the lack of what I had in my own life as a youngster. Um, you know, my parents divorced and there really wasn't that support or that mentorship. Um, and I I think back I was fortunate that I had a few really strong mentors. Um one of my drill instructors who I helped I worked very closely with him even as a recruit as he was moving up and taking over a new platoon. He was a sergeant of the guard in Beirut when the barracks was bombed there. We had just developed a very tight bond. Um and he meant he was really my first mentor in the Marine Corps that I had, and was very, very strong mentor in that way. Um so it just that that has been my because really is giving back and providing that, whether it was as a teacher, as a coach, as a leader of young Marines, is I can be there for you. Somebody who truly cares, wants to know who you are, wants to know what your goals, and I'm gonna do everything I can to help you achieve you know what it is that you want to achieve. And you know, even taking some folks that were discarded by others. Um I I can think vividly of a couple of people. They would always being in the logistics shop. I would get the the folks who got in trouble somewhere else, and they'd make them the barracks manager, so they'd fall underneath me. And you know, it's like, all right, you made mistakes. So here's the situation you're in. What are we gonna do about that? How are you going to move forward? What is it that you want to achieve from this? You can do nothing and you can spiral downward, or you can take this as an opportunity to do the best job possible and move yourself forward and get better. It doesn't mean that you can't uh regain that. You're gonna have to work harder for it, but being there and and but giving them the confidence um that somebody believes in them, I think, is such a huge factor. You know, I saw it over and over again as you know, with with young Marines with the different backgrounds they're coming into the Marine Corps with, to students especially. My gosh, the the kids that are are coming into school today with the baggage that they carry. You know, there's a great book out there on the Vietnam War, The Things They Carry. It's one of the best books I've ever read on war because it talks about the things you carry, both physically, you know, what do you have in your pack and mentally? What mental pieces are you coming into the battle with? And I I really related that a lot of times to my students. Like, what mental baggage are you carrying in and you know, what what do you bring in in that backpack? Do you have lunch in there? Do you have, you know, do you have something that you're holding on to dearly because you don't have any place for it because you don't have a home? You know, and and I think those things carry over from our childhood into our service, you know, and even onto the athletic fields and beyond. So having somebody that's there to mentor, uh, I was fortunate to have a few people that really changed my trajectory in life. And that's really been my passion for for giving that back in return.
SPEAKER_03:Well, one thing I've always been very curious in, like with people that have a high level of, I guess, emotional intelligence, especially to be a mentor and a coach. Um, what you just said too, like resonates deeply with me. And I'll share just a quick story, uh, and then I'll shut up and kick it back over to you. Uh, but I remember being in Afghanistan, uh, the platoon I took over had around 24 people at the time. They deployed with 44. Uh, they had a minimal man platoon to where we couldn't even drive some of our vehicles that we had. So it was a striker battalion that I first went to. So they did a call out to our company of like, hey, we're looking for people to come uh to this platoon. Uh that yeah, it's a hard area, it's a hard problem set, but we need people. Hardly anyone volunteered other than what the quote unquote leadership um challenges were within the company. And I'm not gonna say names, but every single one of those men have my deep respect because one, they volunteered to come to a place of hardship, and then two, um, they were some of the best uh soldiers that I've ever seen in my life. And exactly what you did, and it's funny how we shared that is that I was like, hey guys, like you have a clean slate with me. Uh I'm all about deeds, not words, and I don't look at your past, I don't care what you've done in your past, uh, as long as it doesn't violate one of my ethical boundaries, right? And you wouldn't be here if if that were the case. Uh, you have a clean slate with me. All I ask is that you give 100% a day, because that's all we can do. Uh, and then look after your brothers to your left and your right. And they were the best soldiers I've ever had. And I've carried that mindset. Sometimes it burns you, and I'll be honest, like it's burnt me a couple of times, but 99% of the time it doesn't. Um, and I always give people the benefit of the doubt until I've I've learned to not trust them. But with you, what tools did you use to connect with people from like such a broad spectrum? Because I know the Marine Corps like that too. You have inner city, you have people from the foothills of Appalachia. How did you learn to connect with them to become like a coach or a mentor?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think it goes back to the listen to learn and understand. Um, you know, I say I taught in one of the most diverse rural communities in The United States. We were in the Poconos in Pennsylvania. Uh, when I when I actually when I got stationed there on recruiting duty in in 1991, there was a population of 64,000. Ten years later, it was a population of 185,000. So you had, you know, your farmers, the Pennsylvania Dutch farmers in the West End that didn't like outsiders. You had your townies, you had folks that lived up in the hills and just wanted to be left alone. And then you took, you know, big city New York and plopped that down over top of all of it with you know different races, different ethnicities, different languages. I was a president of our school board for a while, and I remember one of the statistics was the vast amount of different languages that were spoken at home in our, and that was just one segment of the county, just you know, four different school districts. I was like, wow, what diverse populations. So, you know, to really comprehend, like you were saying, you know, if you're coming from the coal mining regions, which I recruited in coal mining regions in Pennsylvania, um, you know, and somebody says, Hey, would you come out to my house? Sure, where do you live? Well, we live at patch number five. What's patch number five? Just five little houses, you know, a couple houses around the one of the mine shafts. That was a patch. So you, you know, to learn and and one, I think it's important to take the time and energy and effort to want to learn about them, learn about where they came from, learn about their cultures. Uh, when you do, wow, what a vast experience. I mean, think of your travels. How much more do you learn just from traveling and meeting different people? Um, and when when you bring all of that together in one spot, you know, that's a huge, huge piece. Um, you know, understanding why they believe the way they believe, you know, what makes them tick. And when it comes down to what you really find is that you have a whole lot more in common than you do apart. Um, you know, I watched some of the struggles that we had with two of my platoon mates in boot camp that came from very different backgrounds and very different upbringings, and it led to them you know getting into a little bit of a uh scuffle while we were out at the rifle range. Unfortunately, it was right before the series commander came walking by and had us all out in our skivys doing the uh the digging in the sand pits. Um, but by the end, they were bunk mates and best friends because they they got to know each other and got to learn. So I think if if you take the time to really learn and get to know your people and appreciate the difference in cultures, you know, it it provides one, they know you care. And if you're going to mentor them, they've got to believe that you care, not just saying it. Words, words are one thing. Um, like you said, deeds are a whole different component. Um, and being there when it's important, you know, and in today's technology age, I I think probably the most important part of that is are you present? You know, how often do you see I see it all the time where you know, well, I'm so busy as a leader, I don't have time. I'm I'm gonna type on here and talk to you over here where you're not really paying attention. That person doesn't feel like you care. Like, all right, I'm an afterthought. Take the time when you're with someone to be present in the moment and really give them your undivided attention and make them feel like they're the most important person in the world to you right now. If you do that, wow. I mean, I have a for a couple of friends that my wife and I talk about all the time, like, wow, they make you feel so special every time you're around them because you are the most important thing to them at that time. So when you can do that for other people, it just opens up a whole new world of people that are willing to listen and learn and and uh allow you to be a mentor. You know, they've got to let you in. And what if you're gonna be effective, they've got to let you in, and that's being present.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you have to you have to build um trust. And I think trust comes through mutual respect and then time. Those are the two variables. And one of the most powerful lessons that I learned was actually from when I made the transition from the infantry to acquisitions, one of my bosses, um, Colonel Fraser, don't forget this man. He was an aviator, it was a height of COVID, uh, but he kind of like embraced me uh because I was the only weirdo coming into this like four-star or four um story building. But he had a separate table uh in his office. And at that table was two chairs, you know, some mints or whatever. And no one ever set on that. Um, and I was always curious, like, hey sir, like what's with this table? And he's like, Well, when I have one-on-one's and that's where we did our initial counseling, that's for uh a one-on-one discussion. If someone needs to come talk to me, there's no electronics allowed there, um, there's no distractions allowed there, it's just me and the other person, and we're gonna have a candid conversation. Uh, and that's always stuck with me. And I've I've done that in the past, but I didn't realize I was doing that. I've always tried to be intensely focused uh with someone when they're talking to me and listen from an unselfish lens, if that makes sense. Is like I'm not looking for things that I can use to benefit myself. I'm looking for things from an empathetic point of view of like, hey, what are you struggling with? How can I help you? And then how can we continue to move forward together collectively? Um, so that's awesome. Uh, and I love that. That and it's a theme too that I've noticed with you, you know, throughout your Marine Corps where you talked about the beginning of the episode till now, the connecting with people and just being authentic and and caring, I think is the most important.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, think about when you walk into a room, you know, and and people are talking and you come upon somebody, oh, you know them, and they start talking to you. But the whole time they're talking to you, they're scanning to see if there's somebody, you know, that might further them to talk to better.
SPEAKER_03:100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and even if you're thinking that, at least don't don't portray that. Give that person that's in front of you the time. You'll gain so much more from it yourself, but you'll also make them feel important. Um, but you see that all the time, and that's that's a shame.
SPEAKER_03:I I wish you would have told me that before I went to SoftWake two weeks ago, because I guarantee you half the conversations. I was trying to find ways out, not not because I didn't want to have a conversation, it's like I just needed a break. Uh so I was looking at that for the exit sign, so I'm sure that probably wasn't well received.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and and look, when you're in a situation like that too, there is there is overload at some point, and that that can be challenging, but you know, it's take the time and give them that five minutes of undivided attention, and then it's okay to say, hey, look, I I appreciate having the time, but I do have to excuse myself. There's ways of doing it that still still meet the uh the intent.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. So transitioning uh first time, right, out of the Marine Corps. Uh, I know you went into the reserves and you pursued your passion for education. Can you kind of walk me through that experience? Because that didn't happen. What what I know about you is it didn't happen probably uh as most people's educational careers go. You had to you had a journey.
SPEAKER_01:A little bit. I I say it's you know the path you take sometimes, you have no idea it's coming. So that's what I our youngest just graduated college between my wife and I. We have six, and the youngest just graduated. Like, look, you do not have to have it all figured out at 22 years old. We changed careers mid-50s, you know, completely changed our life in many different ways. Yeah, I I had been married before, and my ex didn't care for the military too much, and we had uh three younger boys that were well at the time I transitioned out. I had one younger son that had just been born. Uh so I stayed home as a stay-at-home dad during the day, transitioned into the reserves, went back to school to get my teaching degree. I had spent eight years on recruiting duty. Part of the reason I wound up on recruiting duty so long is I was at the point of of my end of my first recruiting tour. I had an opportunity to put in a warrant officer package or stay on recruiting. And as I said, my spouse at the time did not care about the military too much and was like, I'm not going anywhere. So I and I I love recruiting, so it wasn't a bad thing, but I stayed on recruiting duty and and really working with the high school age students was a you know, seeing the fact that they needed somebody to mentor them. I can't tell you how many times I'd have kids come in and like, well, what do your parents think? Well, my parents don't care what I do. And what's what's the root of that whole statement? Is my parents don't care. Doesn't mean their parents don't, but that is the perception that that young person has. Um, and I heard that way too often. And kids that just lacked any thought of direction where they might go. And it didn't matter whether it was coming in the Marine Corps, having some direction of where they're going to head. It doesn't have to be the end of the road, but at least start down that path. Have some kind of journey that you're heading on and know that. So that kind of drove me when I was looking to transition. All right, well, this is something that I could do to continue working with those same youth. I can continue my Marine Corps career in in the reserve component. You know, and I was I'd already started coaching. I had coached some youth league sports while I was on recruiting duty, uh, connected with a couple of folks and uh allowed me to get started with some youth programs in football and baseball, which I we always loved coaching and working with the with the younger kids. So it just fit naturally. Uh, when back to school at 32, definitely a different uh you know, when you're sitting there and the kid behind you, yeah, this is my third time taking this course, you're taking a basic history course. Let me guess, mom's paying. Well, how'd you know? Because if you were paying, you wouldn't be taking it three times. Yep. Yeah, just a different focus. Knew why I was there, knew what I wanted to achieve from it. Probably was much better off going back at that age because I, you know, once I went into Marine Corps, I said I was never going to college. Uh, never's a long time. So I say never say never. I said I'd never run a marathon. Well, I did one of those. Um, so you, you know, it's it's really what you put your mind to. That was my real focus in moving into to education was to continue what I had started in recruiting and working with the young people. And I figured it was a great way to continue having an impact on our youth, but also maintain you know my military career.
SPEAKER_03:Today's show sponsor comes from 10th Mountain Whiskey and Spirit Company. They are a philanthropic award-winning craft distillery located in the heart of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. For being a listener of Tales of Leadership, you get 10% off on any order using the promo code PandoCommando when you place an order at 10th Whiskey.com. Both of those are in the show notes, so you'll be able to find them. 10th Mountain Whiskeys and Spirit Company honors heroes and they craft legacy. I've commanded two organizations in the 10th Mountain, and both of which are very deeply impactful to me. This is a company that I stand behind. And if you're looking for a great bottle of bourbon, look no further at 10th Mountain Whiskey and Spirit Company. Back to the show. And that that's that's a question I was thinking about asking too. Um, is what lessons did you pull upon from the Marine Corps time from that you've gained the lens of leadership to applying that as a teacher and even as a coach? Were there similarities, uh things that were common between both that helped you?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. I I say all the time that college was a means to the end. Um, in order to become a teacher, you got to graduate college and you know, pass your certification exams. But that was about the extent of what I really took into the classroom. What I took into the classroom was what I learned in the Marine Corps, how to how to deal with young people. You know, people, oh, how are young people today compared? Young people today are no different than they were 50 years ago. They reflect society, but the way you treat them is the way you're going to get treated back. You know, and it's it's not about just telling somebody what to do. I I that's the last thing you want to be doing is always telling somebody what to do. Because if you're telling them what to do, they're just gonna rebel. I would go out there when when we were doing conditioning all summer long for football. I was out there conditioning with with my I coach freshman in in high school football. Um it's like, nope, if I'm gonna have you run sprints, I'm gonna run them with you. And if I'm beating you, we're gonna keep running. Um so you know it builds that um that trust that hey bonding as a team, team is only strong as its weakest links. Um, and and I think you know, those are lessons that we we learn in the military. How do we how do we pull people together as a team? It's a little different when you're in boot camp because you got that very controlled environment. But a lot of that same principle works well whether you're you're you know, especially coaching a team because you hopefully have set a vision and you all have that same vision of winning, you know, whether it's a game, a championship, you know, what does it take to get there? And teaching that that's done in the offseason, not in the you know, during the during a game. Focusing on the little things, doing the little things right, if you know discipline, attention to detail, you know, being able to evaluate film not for your highlight realm, but for what mistakes did I make and how do I improve that? You know, it's easy to practice the things you're good at. I you know, I love John Wooden. He just look, I'm going to teach and we're going to institute our game plan and make people respond to us. And if you do those little things well and you practice those things that you're weakest at and make them stronger, by the end of the season, we're going to be unbeatable. Um, and and those are all, I think, very valuable leadership lessons from the military. You know, how do you how do you handle your classroom? Well, I'm not going to call somebody out in front of their fellow students. I'll pull them aside and have that conversation with them. And, you know, holding people accountable. Um and when I say accountable, you have to be responsible for your actions. You know, we we talked about, hey, giving people that second chance. Well, you can't really give somebody a second chance until they have uh taken responsibility for their previous action. And I've only ever had one or two that I I couldn't get to see that. And they were typically the ones that all right, well, then we're gonna have to to process you out because you've you've given us no alternative. But as long as you take responsibility for your previous action, you paid the consequences, now you get a clean start. And and I think that's the same type of thing. It's hard for students, especially when you're getting them at the high school level, because so many have already gotten so many limiting beliefs. Well, I I suck at math, I'm not good at this. Oh, yeah. And to change that around, um, to undo 15 years worth of of that, whether it's coming from parents, previous teachers, previous coaches, their own, you know, negative speak, creating that trusted environment where they can fail and and move forward. You know, come into school looking for knowledge. Don't come into school for a grade because you can cheat and get a good grade. But when the end of the day, if you come in and you focus on knowledge, the grades will follow and you will have so much more opportunity. Now we said knowledge is power and it's the power of choice. You know, the more knowledge you have, the more choices you have. Um, you know, it's it and it that's you know, it's just how do we how do we impart that onto our young? Um when people complain about our youth today, I'm like, look in the mirror. You created that. They are products of their environment and they need more positive role models. Um you know, if we want our military force to stay strong, that's up to especially us veterans, it's up to us to what did we get? Look, this was this was a huge piece of who I am today. I I look at the the leadership opportunities, the mentoring that I had there. Uh my gosh, the opportunities that I had to experience life propelled me to where I am today and is is the foundation of everything that I do. So, you know, that is the same thing that it can offer our youth today. You know, if if all everybody talks about is that, oh, all veterans are broken and they're they're crazy and they no, that's that's not the case at all. Again, we're one percenters. You know, that that we have already shown that we can thrive above the average person, and that is going to set you apart. Um, you know, and I I think there's a lot of folks in business that see that, not as many as should. Um, but you know, you take that that raw person with that ability, what can't you mold them to do? You know, I I can teach you to do anything, but you got to come with that that foundation. Um, you come with that foundation and willingness to learn, we can teach you anything that you need to know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that I I uh echo that sentiment that um I believe veterans when they get out are a bigger impact for uh America and the United States, the nation as a whole, versus when they served. Because when they served, like their awesomeness is contained into their sphere of influence. But when you get out, um you can impact huge levels of people, especially in large companies. And arguably that's where it's most important because what you just said, people don't see those types of shared values, those principles, those characteristics implemented every day because they live in what society allows them to see in a way. In the military and the Marine Corps, there are distinct core values and beliefs that everyone share. The selfless service, honor, integrity, duty, things like that that we all have. And when you get out and you transition out, uh I will say that I will take a veteran over someone who just has a college degree any day of the week because they're coming with one of the biggest things is resilience. Uh, if one thing captured my entire military career, it would be resilience and adaptability. Like I I was an infantry officer in Afghanistan, and they charged me with developing 5k worth of road and building these buildings. It's like, well, that's what engineers do. I close with and destroy the enemy. I go pew pew with my gun. Like, it's like, no, we need you to go build these roads and build these homes. And I was like, all right, well, I'll I'll find a way. And I've always had that mindset beyond that is like, hey, like the next job I'm going into, I have no idea what I'm going to do, but I'm going to go in there coachable, curious, and committed, the three C's. And if I take those things, I'll learn. And then um and then apply that to anything in life. And so you, um, what you're doing at Robert Irvine Foundation and then veterans, what they're doing across this nation is exactly what we we need. And I love how you talked about a lot of times people uh focus on goals, like just trying to get something short term, and then you fall into the like a dopamine kick uh of where we're always chasing that next hit. And I had to learn about this too, is that I need to think uh inside out. Who do I want to become? What are the behaviors or characteristics that need to be implement uh implemented? And at the end of the day, uh what what are the outcomes? If I focus on the outcomes first, then I will never find uh joy and fulfillment in things because every day is something else that you have to do, but you have to find joy and fulfillment in becoming something bigger than yourself. So all that was 100% fire. Um, I again I think I'm on four pages of notes now, so keep going.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the goal piece is something that I you know everybody knows Stephen Covey and and that whole goal piece, but really one of the things that was I think a big change for me over the the last 10 years, even was you know, I began reading. I I read before, but you know, a lot of leadership stuff in the Marine Corps and and so forth, but it was not until I read a James Clear um Atomic Habits, you know, and and changing the process. Because you have a goal, you achieve the goal, okay. When you know, so many people think, well, when I get there, I'm gonna be happier. When I get no, that that that doesn't create happiness. Being fulfilled creates the happiness, and you know, you create that happiness on your own. But if you have the process down, you will not only achieve the goal, you will exceed the goal and keep going because the process is what allows you to grow and keep moving forward. You know, and I changed it to where I changed my whole morning routine. I I'm a habit stacker. I get up in the morning, I drink my coffee, I read, I journal, lay out my day, I get my work at in, usually get a hike in in the morning, clear the brain, sit down, now I'm ready to go to work. But I say used to read a book a year. Now I read a book every two weeks. Yeah. Just the amount of knowledge you factor in that, you know, the people that are writing most of those books have 20 years, 30 years of experience. So if you're compressing that 20 years of experience into two weeks, take that times you know, 26 weeks throughout the year. Are you going to retain everything? No, but you certainly retain a huge amount, and you start to see the overlap and how those things all tie together. And you know, it's it's about continual learning, continual improvement, um, both personally and professionally. Leadership isn't something that, oh, I know it all. You'll never know it all. You know, there's always something to be learned. You know, I I love working with Robert. Um, you know, he's a phenomenal mentor. The the leadership that he provides, and I see it everywhere we go, um, whether it's young entrepreneurs, veterans, you know, our military chefs, he's constantly evolving his own leadership and and how he deals with people. Um, you know, and and I think seeing those different groups of leaders as you evolve yourself gives you something more to pull from. Are you going to be able to emulate exactly what somebody else does? No, and you shouldn't. Take what they're doing and see how that fits into your life and your personality. What can I take from that that will enhance what I'm doing? And it's a continual process. And, you know, sometimes you you circle back on something because you hear it, like, oh, okay, yeah, that that's something I haven't really been implementing in my life recently, but I need to get back to that because there's always, you know, I always say there's there's always 40 hours of work to be had. That's that's never an issue. But how do I focus on my priorities, both personally and professionally, that are going to have those largest outcomes and take us to where we want to go. Focus on those priorities, whether it's the 80-20 rule, um, you know, or or you know, eating your frog, whatever, however you want to look at that particular piece, but focus on those things that are going to have the biggest outcomes. And you know, that I think if you do that, you you'll continue to grow, you'll continue to learn and continue to succeed.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, 100%. I agree with everything you said. And James Clear's book, um Atomic Habits, uh, was instrumental in me kind of developing that mindset. Uh, and thank God for Audible, because I just don't have the time to read. So, like the car rides and stuff, um, sitting in the saunas in the morning, uh, like if it wasn't for Audible, I would I would be on struggle bus. But because of Audible, a hundred percent. I I'm I'm with you. I find myself getting into two or three books at a time, and then like getting lost in a book, and then be like, oh, I forgot about this book. And then uh I try to do at least two a week. Um, just having to podcast too. I if you were to write a book, I would 100% read your book before you come on the show, and then that's a challenge too, uh, to consume that much information at a time. And I think that's a beautiful transition uh to where you're at actively right now in your leadership journey. So yeah, through the Marine Corps, we're a teacher, a mentor, a coach, uh, and then now transitioning into what you're doing within the Robert Irvine Foundation. How did you land um on working within within that nonprofit?
SPEAKER_01:Well, we had my wife and I have both done nonprofit work for 25 years. Uh you know, I'd been with Centrifying America's Fund, doing fundraising for them, helped set up their community athlete program. You know, I was the board chair for our local Northeast PA and Northwest New Jersey Leukemia Lymphoma Society. My wife was board chair for our local YMCA. Um, and we had done numerous other fundraising activities and community leadership, school boards, zoning boards, and things of that nature. So we actually they were in the process of doing an$18 million renovation while my wife was the board chair of our local Y, and that had failed a few times before they tried it. She said, look, they don't have the capacity for any grant writers, so why don't we take a course? Because if your wife's the board chair, you're the assistant board chair. And so took took a grant writing course and and through the process, you know, we took one that was just antiquated, and I said we came across our millennial connection, younger, younger folks that had a new new approach to it, and we actually developed a really good relationship with with the two of them with our years of experience on the nonprofit side as fundraisers and as board leaders, and taking what they knew as far as the grant writing perspective. And so we we started a little side business while I was teaching. My wife's a chiropractor, um, you know, doing grant writing, and found we did a lot more consulting, especially for younger, mostly military nonprofits, helped out a few friends as well. But you know, we used to say you got to get grant ready before you can start to do grants, building that foundation. So we did a lot of consulting work, building organizations, building their foundations and getting them to where they needed to be, whether it was getting their you know, IRS 501c3 designation, had to fix a lot of their articles in corporation at times. So, you know, did a lot of did a lot of homework and a lot of gained a lot of knowledge in that regard. Um, and that led to my wife then becoming the uh grants and uh corporate relations manager for the armed services YMCA serving young military families. And about two months later, uh we met Robert at an event, a fundraising event in uh the Lansdale PA. And they were just starting this reuniting the Brave program. Great, fabulous program, one of one of my favorite things that we do. And he's like, Well, we'd really never done any grants in the past. It had been, you know, when he started a program, uh the foundation had been a pass-through. Uh, but he really wanted to focus on you know physical, mental, um, nutritional wellness of our active forces and our veteran community and their families and our first responders as well, anybody that serves. Um, it's like so before you leave here, make sure you talk to Judy, our president, Judith Otter. You know, and one thing led to another. And so I came on board um to help with the the grant writing and and foundation um you know relationships. Um and that has since then led to other parts of what I do with the foundation. We we got connected with the face-to-fight coalition, which USAA, uh, Reach Resilience and Humana uh funded, but it's it's now 258 partner uh veteran service organizations that are dealing with veteran suicide. And we were fortunate to be one to get a grant to incorporate evidence-based uh strategies. We do crisis response planning, safety planning, lethal means safety strategies. It's self-management tools for our our veteran community, and and actually we've worked with a lot of active duty uh folks too and their families to create this self-management tool so that if you get into a crisis, you have the means to deal with that and you know do something different than what has been done to bring down a suicide number. So we're incorporating that into all of our programs. So I have the opportunity to kind of spearhead that and and lead that initiative within the foundation.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but Robert's a very persuasive individual, and I'd uh I watched him on TV, I'm sure he is, and I've had a conversation with him. So in person is probably uh very persuasive.
SPEAKER_01:He is, you know, and you talk about that leadership and and the person who does what they expect you to do. There's nobody that is giving back more to the veteran and active duty community than than Robert. He is on the road so many days out of the year, and whether he's it was just a DAV, Patriot Boot camp mentoring young military entrepreneurs, he'll every time he travels to a base, they work with military chefs and are working on revamping our entire food, um, the way we feed our uh our our troops. Uh, you know, I was just at a wellness seminar not too long ago and you know, looking at the obesity rates. Well, what are we gonna do to change that? And he's working hard uh to make sure that we're you know giving our troops the nutrition they need. How do you how can you go out there and do your job on the battlefield if you're not fueled appropriately? And so everything that he does and and leads from the front makes it, you know, you gotta keep pace. So you can't can't let Robert uh be out there. By himself. So, you know, that's kind of the the I don't know, it's it definitely is a motivator for me is when you work with somebody like that that has that passion and shares your passion for giving back and and taking care of our military community and and our families. It's uh it's a passion, it's it's not necessarily work.
SPEAKER_03:I I agree a hundred percent. I think people people like that who are have the passion and the purpose, like both aligned. I call it head-heart-hand alignment. Um, if if they could see it, if they have that intrinsic motivation, they just feel that it's so much easier to do the work to get your hands around something. And someone like that is just very charismatic. Um, they're infectious in a way to be around. Like great leaders I've seen within the military or in the civilian world, too. People seek them out to work with them because they're so passionate, they're so charismatic, they're so inspiring in a way that it's just easy to do work and achieve great things because it's just it's just normal. And I love how the Robert Irvine Foundation focuses on like multiple different pillars too. Because like with me, I think that there's there's different pillars um or buckets that we all have to be complete and to be the best individual that you can be. There's different level levels, right? Balance, I think, is impossible, but finding harmony in those. So um I wrote these down of covering food, wellness, um, financial support. It's really like a holistic approach to I think the root cause preventing suicide. And I you and I share that passion. I think with me, uh, because we all have shared experiences, right? And there's too many names to kind of go down. But with me, I'm trying to tackle it from showing other people there's a different way to lead. You can be a purposeful, accountable leader, you can be transformational, you can be inspiring, and and your actions will have deep impacts across others. Um, but we all are trying to crack the same nut and at the end of the day to just lower the the number of soldiers who actually do take their life. And there's something you hinted at there, and I wondered if you could get deeper into that. Suicide protection versus prevention. What are the distinguishing between those?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a great question. It was something I you know until about a year ago, I really wasn't clear on it myself. When you look at most of what our veteran organizations do, we provide protections and isolation, you know, give people a purpose, um, reconnect them. You know, just isolation is there's there's so many different uh causes, but they're not always visible. Um, you know, so things like our reuniting the brave, where we bring units back together that serve together. We bring the families in, we bring the gold star families in, we bring the families of the fallen in, you know, reconnecting them. You know, we talked earlier, who do you have your closest connection with? Those who you went through the most trying times with. So when you can reconnect those folks, wow, what a difference it makes. Literally, it saves lives. We've had, you know, feedback from from some of our attendees. That you know, I the one that sticks out to me is um we had a gathering of 500 Coast Guard rescue swimmers and Gulf Shores last June, and one of the swimmers came with the intention of saying goodbye. Got there. His wife had no idea that he was struggling, got there, got talking to you know his fellow swimmers, and that's a very tight-knit community. There's only 1,185 of them since 1985. And just to listen to others talk and the fact that, hey, the other people are struggling with the same things that I'm struggling with, and that it's okay, you know, it's okay to have those struggles. But what do we need to do to go forward and and move forward? The fact that he's now connected with those folks again and he's thriving, you know, not that he doesn't still have some struggles, but they stay connected. Um, and you know, even for the spouses having that opportunity that where they can, you know, reconnect. Some of them, I would say the new spouses that are out there because they weren't with their service member when they were serving, they get to now have a resource with other spouses that they can talk to, you know, about similar situations and recognizing that, hey, what my spouse has gone through is not unique. There's others and there's resources out there to help us. You know, so it's really important to have those types of protections in in place. Um, whether it's equine therapy, you know, dog therapy, some of the service to hucks are the what they can do is incredible from detecting heart rate to diabetes to you know stress. Um it's incredible. So what works for one might not work as well for the other. We know that the medication isn't necessarily the best option. So how do we how do we do things that are you know prevention? So doing a Columbia screening, you know, that's it's a simple six questions. You might ask question one and depending on how they answer that, skip to question number six. Organizations like Vet for Warriors that you know it's a people call in, they screen every single veteran that calls in there now. And just through the screening, people talk because the question is asked. Um, and that's important. When we do crisis response planning or we do safety safety planning, I I I like to think of it as a safety plan regardless, because you know, it's for the bad day, whenever you're going to have a bad day. And nobody knows when that's going to be. And we've all lost people and we've all had our own struggles at different times, you know, maybe not to that extent, but we've had those bad days and where you start to spiral and recognizing what those signs are in yourself. You know, and it's it's as simple as putting it on a three by five card. What are those things that I'm struggling with? You know, what sends me into that spiral? Then what kind of things can we do to, you know, is it is it hit a punching bag? Is it go out for a walk with a dog? Is it listen to heavy metal music, whatever it is that that helps us calm down and brings us down from that? Great. Who's that trusted person that we can call? The person that's not going to be judgmental, and that's the key. You can't be judgmental when somebody's reaching out to you. Um again, go back, listen to learn and understand. Um, that's important. Or being able to uh know your reasons for living, and then in the end is having a you know 911, 988, Vets for Warriors, who can I call in that last ditch effort? And you know, that's a that's an intervention or prevention strategy because it's a self-management tool that you can put on a three by five card, you can put a safety plan on your phone. Um, you know, that can go with you anywhere. Lethal means safety. You know, what's the reason? One of the major reasons veteran suicide is so much higher. We tend to use weapons and we have access to weapons. So what can you do to reduce access? Use a cable lock, use a gunbox, you know, Overwatch project uses magnets. I could say, Josh, hey, would you put your phone number on here for me? So I I know I'm responsible for calling you before I open that gunbox and do the same for each other. And you know, it's it's that extra step because we're talking about a five-minute uh window. We got to get you through that that crisis to get you back down to to to make it to the next day. And that's those are prevention strategies. You know, three, and there's there's some others, but those are you know three major prevention strategies. The protections are how do we end the isolation, how do we get your purpose again, um, you know, reconnecting with with those resources that you may need, but really I think some of that is the personal connection. And you know, I think Buddy Check Week is kind of going in that direction, that that direction of that protection. But it's more than just, you know, hey, how you doing? And you never really wait for the response. Really having the conversation, like, how are things going, Josh? Are things, you know, how's work? How's the family? Having that little bit more detailed contact with those that are closest to us. I talked about a reuniting brave. The one thing that always I I looked at was, all right, well, who's not here? And they would give me a couple people, I was like, let's reach out to them while we're here. So that they're coming together next time you guys get together, they're part of it. So reach out, have a conversation with them because if they're not here, they're the ones I worry about. They're not reconnecting with that number one resource that they have, which is the purpose, people they served with. So, you know, how do we create those protective environments? Um you know, and I I always say to really move forward when you're when you're talking about suicide, we're all vulnerable, right? And when you when you look at vulnerability, um Brene Brown did this in a presentation she did with some special forces units.
SPEAKER_02:I love her books, by the way.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, she's fabulous. Uh, she talked about being um you know working working with Army Special Forces, and she got there and she said, I'm nervous. She says, They're looking at me. I'm sure, like, what the heck is she gonna offer us today? Um and like, look, I just ask you one question and then we'll go forward from there. So, how many of you have ever been in a vulnerable situation that required bravery? And it was dead silent. And she said it I it felt like forever, probably was only like 30 seconds, but it felt like it was 10 minutes. She said, Finally, somebody said, All right, let's get started. And you think about that. I don't care whether you're a first responder, you're running into a burning building when everybody's running out, you're going into a live shooter situation when everybody else is scattering, or you're you know, getting ready to cross that line of debarcation into a combat environment, you're vulnerable and it requires bravery. But when I think about, we talked about it earlier, when you're stepping forward, it's that bravery and it's thinking about the person to your right and your left. You know, that whole patriotism thing sounds great, but in that moment, it's not about patriotism. It's about making sure you're protecting each other's lives so that you can get home to your loved ones. And that brave space to where you have that person on your right and left is, I think, what we need to create more of in our veteran and our active duty community, because the active duty community is dealing with a lot of suicides as well. And society is as a whole. But how do we create that brave space and we provide that left and right flank for for each other and truly be there and be concerned and and take the time? I I've been working on reaching out to at least one friend every day, whether it's a text, um, just a return.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good idea.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I'm I'm certainly not certainly not a perfect habit yet, but it's it's something that I I I think about and I work on every day, whether it's quick message, quick text, you know, and and that I think if we all did that and we all took the time to be there and be present for each other, that's what's going to change the trajectory in our suicide in our in our community is being there and the VA is not going to fix it, the government's not going to fix it. We need to fix it ourselves and and provide that that brave space for each other.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. If it's to be, it's up to the right. Like uh I uh as you were talking, it's funny, my mind was thinking through like a combat arms mission planning scenario. So we all have like a decisive point, like within a battle of where you either win or lose. And in suicide prevention, you know, that five minutes where you just talked about, like that's the decisive point. So, what do we have at our disposal um for uh either offensive or defensive operations, right? That can help us overcome that that decisive point. So we have the market advantage, not just then, but like moving forward. And like how you how you structured that and then what you're doing too is like super impactful. So I just take a moment to say thank you uh for everything you're doing now.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's it goes back to we've all lost, you know, and and that's that's an important thing. I I I don't know. I I always say my why is when I was born, I was born with craniosenosis. So I my soft spot on the top of my head grew shut too quick and put pressure. And I was fortunate to have been a surgeon in the army that you know did tons of operations in Korea. When I was born, my mom took me to her neurosurgeon. She said, Look, I I would do six surgeries and there's no guarantees, but this take him to see Dr. Linus. He's been doing this new procedure and it's once and done. I was fortunate. You know, I have a scar, I got a little bit of funky-shaped head, but I survived that. And because of having that new procedure, it gave me the opportunity to not just live, but to thrive. And how can I help others do that? You know, the service is the number one way you can do that, giving back. You know, and and we're all very fortunate to have what we have. So how can we help others and and give back? I always say you you get back 10 times what you give. And talk about that personal fulfillment, you know, seeing seeing our veterans and their families thrive, you know, there's nothing better than than that ability. And that's I I love working with the foundation because I get to see that on a regular basis, you know, whether it's providing an IBOT for somebody, giving them the independence and the confidence back, seeing the service dogs and what they mean for a family, um, getting people back together, you know, and just giving giving people a voice to talk in that space to talk about their struggles. And hey, we're here to work, work forward together. Um, you know, because because we can do this together.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no a hundred percent, brother. So quickly, how can people find the Robert Irvine Foundation, either if they need a resource or if they want to get involved in some capacity?
SPEAKER_01:Sure, it's Robert Irvine Foundation.org. You know, we're in the process. We're gonna have a new website coming out that's gonna be a lot more interactive and give opportunities for people to engage even that much more. Um, obviously, we're across all the social medias as well, but you know, we always say if people are interested, I always throw out my email. It's ryarnall at robert Irvine Foundation.org. If people want us to come and and you know work with our organization, we are always happy to partner, and especially when it comes to the suicide prevention and and teaching more people the the importance and the tools that are that are out there and available, you know, to prevent that and you know just to reconnect people too and and help help each other thrive. And you know, there's so many of our peer organizations out there doing such great work.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, Robert, this has been uh a phenomenal episode, a little bit longer than an hour. Uh I could keep going, but I definitely want to be respectful of your time. And I've learned so much from you. I think I have now five pages of notes, and most importantly, I feel inspired. Uh, that's a mark of a great episode with me, is if um I have a guest on that I call purposeful, accountable leader like yourself. And I leave here to be inspired to continue to take action. Um, so thank you for everything that you're doing. Uh, humbled to get to know you at a little bit deeper of a level and uh just keep getting after it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate it, Josh. Thanks for your leadership and uh uh appreciate the time.
SPEAKER_03:Have a great day, brother. All right, team. Time for our after action review. Uh again, phenomenal episode by Bob of kind of just breaking down his leadership journey. The first thing that I took from uh my notes is leadership is all about serving your people. And I think oftentimes, especially people who are just starting out in leadership, they lose sight of that. Leadership's a privilege, it's not a right. You are taking that job on with the understanding that there is distinct responsibilities that come with it. There are some privileges of being a leader, but most of them are all outweighed by the responsibilities that you have as a leader. You have to be selfless and you have to serve other people. You have to take the blame when you're at fall and you have to give away credit. That's all the signs of a transformational leader, or what I like to call a purposeful accountable leader. It's hard to be a leader because you have to be devoted to the mission, you have to spend the time to go meet and know your people, and you have to do it in an authentic manner. Leadership's not easy, and it's not for the faint of heart, like the Ranger School slogan, and I mean that, is if you're not ready for the challenge to be a leader, don't take the job. Leadership's all about serving people. If you can do that right, then you will crush everything else uh that you will encounter. Number two is learn from your mistakes. Uh, and here's a quote that Bob had through the middle of this podcast is listen to learn and understand not to respond. That's beautiful. And it's all about iterative development, like just in like engineering. When we iterate, we're building upon failures. So if we think of it as a system of a system, right? Like within a drone, because that's the world I'm very intimately familiar with, there's a critical component within that drone that's not working, that's causing the drone to not fly correctly. All right, well, now we need to look at it from a root cause analysis. We need to figure out why it failed. After we identify that, we fix that. It now flies. That's the whole process of learning through mistakes as a leader. Is you're going to make mistakes. That is just inevitable. You will find ways to fail, trust me, especially in new jobs, or you'll get complacent and you'll fail. It's okay. Failure is a part of the process, but let's redefine failure. Failure isn't final, failure is iterative. We understand why we failed, we then improve upon that, and we move forward, and that's the most important part because we're building upon it every single time. And the last key takeaway that I had from this episode is accountability. That's a recurring theme, but it's very hard to do, right? And we talked about this in the past during this episode of you know, both of us had soldiers or individuals that worked with us on a team that may have not been the best soldier or the best Marine, but at the time we gave them a clean slate, right? They may have gotten in trouble in the past, they took accountability for their actions, and then they came to us with a clean slate, and we embraced them. Being a leader, you have to walk that line. And the same is true for you, is that your job is not to overlook issues, your job is to correct issues, hold people accountable, including yourself, understand why those issues happen. Again, what we just talked about for number two, being a learning organization, and then moving forward. And hey, the past is a past. As long as you do not violate one of my ethical key points, right? A red line, then we can overcome this. And accountability is something that you're going to have to do. Again, this goes back to the first point. Leadership isn't easy, it's hard to do. And holding people accountable can feel uncomfortable, and it is because it is unnatural. We don't want to have confrontation, but it doesn't have to be negative confrontation. Accountability is holding people accountable, understanding that they understand why they failed, having a get well plan and moving forward. Now there's a difference if they continue to make those same mistakes or they violate your ethical compass, right? They do something like lie, cheat, or steal, then that's a different conversation. But if they are failing because of the right reasons, then holding them accountable is much easier. All right, team, do me a favor. I always ask this, but I sincerely mean it. If you find value in this episode, help me spread the word and spread this podcast. So here are four simple steps that I would absolutely value. Number one, make sure you like, share, and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen. Number two, leave a review and send me feedback. I absolutely love hearing feedback from listeners. You can go to Buzz Sprout and shoot me some fan mail. Number three, follow me on social media. You can find me basically on any platform at Tells of Leadership. And number four, if you want to support the show, you can do that by becoming a show sponsor or donating, and go to tells of leadership.buzzsprout.com and it'll all be laid out right there. All right, team. As always, I'm your host, Josh McMillian, saying every day's a gift. Don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.
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