Tales of Leadership
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Tales of Leadership
Ep 89 Tales of Leadership with Stephen Morris
Stephen J. Morris is a passionate and experienced leader with over 21 years of combined service in the Military and Corporate sectors. As a United States Army veteran, Stephen has commanded and led combat and non-combat deployments across the globe, honing a deep understanding of leadership under pressure. After transitioning to civilian life, he faced the challenges of adapting to a new work environment and found his calling as a Leadership Development and Career Coach. Drawing inspiration from the exceptional leaders who shaped his own journey, he founded Renowned Leadership, a platform dedicated to helping individuals at all levels, from CEOs to team members, enhance their leadership skills and career strategies. Stephen believes in developing authentic leaders with unwavering character and integrity, guiding them toward becoming leaders whom everyone is eager to follow.
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You're listening to the Tales of Leadership podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader what I like to call a pal. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership. Hey, welcome back to the Tales of Leadership podcast. I am your host, josh McMillian, an active duty army officer and the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching, and I am on a mission to create a better leader what I like to call a PAL a Purposeful, accountable Leader and my vision is to positively impact 1 million lives in the next 10 years Actually, now it's nine years, which is crazy to think about and I plan to do that by sharing transformational stories and skills.
Speaker 1:Today is going to be a story from a purposeful, accountable leader Stephen Morris. Stephen is a passionate and experienced leader with over 21 years of combined service in the military and the corporate sector. As a United States Army veteran, stephen has commanded and led in combat and non-combat deployments across the globe, honing a deep understanding of leadership under pressure, in chaos. After transitioning to civilian life, he faced a lot of demons and challenges of adapting to a new work environment and found his calling as a leadership development and career coach. Drawing inspiration from the exceptional leaders who shaped his journey, he founded Renowned Leadership, a platform dedicated to helping individuals at all levels, from CEOs to team leaders, enhance their leadership skills and career strategies. Stephen believes in developing authentic leaders with unwavering character and integrity, guiding them towards becoming leaders whom everyone is eager to follow. Leaders whom everyone is eager to follow.
Speaker 1:This is a phenomenal story and Stephen gets really vulnerable about some of the demons that he had to face, but Stephen is a purposeful, accountable leader. Let's go ahead and bring him on the show and, as always, make sure you stay to the end, and I will provide you what the top three takeaways are from this episode. Let's jump right in, stephen. Welcome to the Tales of leadership podcast, brother. How you doing.
Speaker 2:I'm fantastic dude, put some music back on for a little bit. Man, I was jamming. I like that little intro music bro yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's funny like you kind of like to Center yourself right like that. That kind of like gets me in the right state of mind to to start doing a jam session. It's funny too because, like I recently started talking about, like you know, podcasting. I call them like jam sessions now because there's really like no kind of like strict bat flow or like rhythm to it.
Speaker 2:It's kind of we're just fluid state of just talking about things that we love I love it, man, and you know, and all my podcasting, like those are the ones that really, like you can tell whenever it's scripted, when I've had to script it, and whenever it's just we're riffing it, we're just having fun having a good conversation, you know, between a couple of cool dudes that brings value to people's lives, like you know. That that's whenever people like really enjoy it. That's when I enjoy doing it. Um, yeah, totally, I'm with you. 100,. That's whenever people like really enjoy it. That's when I enjoy doing it, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:I'm with you 100%, Like let's crush it, bro, or sorry, other guests, in terms of being on the podcast and you're one of those kind of like referrals to like hey, you need to reach out to Steven because he's a phenomenal leader and we were able to connect really this week through Chris, which was that was a great episode. So I'm really excited to see like how that evolution kind of grew and then maybe if you could tell any dirty secrets, rightris um, man.
Speaker 2:So, man, how did I meet? So I've known chris for a little, about a year and a half now and, uh, we had hired well, I had hired a coach, um to help me start my company and start my business, and the coach I hired happened to have business, and the coach I hired happened to have an online program to help kind of do the same thing. But it's cheaper because you don't actually have the coach Um, and I just met Chris through the forums there and he was like hey, I'm doing this, you're doing that kind of let's have a meeting and talk. And I won't lie to you, man, the first time I met chris I didn't like him. It took me probably. It took me probably like three or four months before I actually liked chris, and I've told him that.
Speaker 2:So it's not, it's not a surprise, but I don't know. There's just something about him. It took me a while to like warm up to him and, um, I think it was just because he was so in my face. I say that wrong. I don't want people to get the wrong impression but Chris and I we had started talking about spirituality and being a Christian and our beliefs and things like that, and Chris was just like you know, he wasn't backing down If he disagreed with me, he wasn't shy and it's like man, this guy's abrasive, and so I think that that's what kind of what put me off of him a little bit. But my wife kept pushing me towards him for some reason Like you should talk to that guy, chris, like you know just kind of kept kind of nudging me to talk to Chris.
Speaker 2:Finally, I broke down and reached out to Chris because I needed help with something. And, man, chris is like one of my best friends. Now I go to him for just about everything. If I need advice, first person I run to is Chris. I had a bad day. First person I text is Chris. He's just an all-around good dude and if y'all don't know who we're talking about, his name is Chris Granger. And, um, if y'all, if y'all don't know who we're talking about, his name is Chris Granger. Um, he has a podcast called the line within us websites line withinus. Go check him out. He is a great dude and, uh, he's easy to get ahold of and he'll help anyone that asked him to help him.
Speaker 1:That's the thing that that I love man is. When we surround ourselves with individuals that kind of like challenge us, we grow kind of in a good way.
Speaker 1:So I can resonate with that is that there's some individuals you know in my life that I had a hard time kind of wanting to at least initially, you know establish contact with, not because I didn't necessarily want to hang out with them, but they would challenge me and they would kind of hip check me to be like, hey, are you doing what you said you're going to do in terms of like starting a podcast, for example, as a part of like a mastermind veteran group, and sometimes Sundays, when that kind of the days roll around, I'm like I don't know if I want to do this. It's not that I don't want to do it, it's that maybe I didn't do what I was supposed to do that week and they're going to kind of hold me accountable and and call me out.
Speaker 2:But I would love to start, brother, like just take the time to provide an overview to the listeners of who is steven yeah, man, so steven, uh, I was born in ireland, got adopted when I was a year old, came to old great indiana, uh, to live with my adoptive parents, and you know I joke, that's actually where I live now Indianapolis, indiana and I joke about it just being a complete horrible place to live and grow up. But in hindsight, man, like it's home and I love it here and it's a great place. So, anyway, I grew up here, I grew up farming, grew up working my butt off, and so August 2001 rolled around. I was 18, raised my right hand, joined the army. About three weeks later, some tools decided to fly into some buildings of ours and we were in war for the next 20 years, next 20 years, and so the next 16 and a half years of my life I spent in the army just going back and forth between Iraq, afghanistan, you know, the U S, europe, africa, travel. I've literally traveled the world. It was a great time in 2013. I ate. A couple of rounds to the chest did some pretty massive damage to my body. Fortunately I survived and uh, but ultimately that ended up ending my career abruptly.
Speaker 2:In 2017, I got, uh, what's called meb or med boarded from the army. It's basically when the army's like, yeah, you're not physically fit to serve anymore and uh, so they ceremoniously retire you, or unceremoniously, in my case. And so that was hard, brother, like that was the hardest thing I've ever gone through. I tell people I'd rather get shot again 10 times over than go through that three and a half years that it took me to transition from being a soldier to being a civilian. And it's still hard. Like it's been a little over six years now and it's still hard.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, you know when, you know what's going on right now in Israel I don't know when this is going to air, but what's going on right now in Israel, with Palestine, that kicking off, like man that eats me alive, like I want to buy a plane ticket now and go to Israel because I'm a, I'm a warrior, I'm a soldier and this is what I do I protect people from from evil. And, um, you know, when I see things like that, it gets, it gets started, it tries to pull me back into that mentality and I have to really fight it off. So, yeah, now I own my own company, uh, host my own podcast, do all kinds of cool stuff public speaking, keynote talks, what's it called uh not emotional, uh oh incident, not inspirational, good grief, uh motivational, that's the word, motivational speeches, stuff like that man dude, when I talked to you on the phone real this week, I knew that you were going to be someone that I needed to get on this podcast One, because we share the same mission in life.
Speaker 1:Right, the whole reason I started this journey is because I saw soldiers getting out of the military. From my lens of how I can affect change and kind of prevent soldiers from going down that dark path is from poor leadership, because I've seen poor leaders kind of affect individual soldiers of wanting to get out of the army. Great soldiers get out of the army just because of one poor leader and, you know, maybe that soldier you know commit suicide and I feel that I kind of failed them in a way and really comes down to like a a lack of purpose. So you have that deep purpose when you're in the military, but when you transition out of the military, you don't and I know we're going to get into that, dude, but like there's just so much to kind of unpack there and what I would really love to start you know, where did you think your leadership journey started? Maybe when you first joined the Army, because one of the things that you said there did you join the Army in August of 2011?
Speaker 1:2001., or 2001, sorry. And then, just right after that, september 11th happened Walk me through that Like you're in basic training right when that when that happened yeah, so we, we, our cycle had literally just picked up.
Speaker 2:Wow so, um, and my drill sergeant, like we're doing the, you know the, uh, what's it called? Um, you get off the bus and you get in the circle oh yeah, shark attack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we were literally, we were literally in the shark attack. And this drill sergeant, um, I can't remember his name, but I can remember his face. I'm talking. This dude's probably 6'6, probably 260, 270, not fat, just beefcake man, just huge. And he walks up to me and he just gets right in my face and like his brown round is literally touching my forehead and he is mean and he puts his knife hand right under my chin and he said Private, you are going to die. And I just looked at him like thank God I didn't have to pee, because I'm pretty sure I would have peed my pants right then and there.
Speaker 2:But, like you know, and I tell people that story, they're like, oh, oh, my god, that's horrible, like what a horrible thing to do some to somebody. But to me, looking back, like that was the greatest gift he ever gave me, because from that moment on, like just the way he said it in his voice and he was serious, like he thought I was going to die and I don't know if, like he literally thought that, but that's what I took from it and it's like oh my God, like this isn't Call of Duty, like I'm going to war and I could die, like I got to take this serious. And so it was crazy, man, like instantly everybody's demeanor changed, like it went from being just straight aggressive to like we are 100% preparing you for war now. And so, man, it got mean, it got fast.
Speaker 2:I don't really know what to compare it to, because I never went to basic training not during wartime, but I imagine it was. It was pretty intense for us anyway, um, but yeah, that's, that's probably my. My fondest memory, I guess, of basic training was uh, you're gonna die private, you're going to die yeah, I think that's like a switch moment.
Speaker 1:So when I was an observer coach trainer at Fort Polk, I had the honor to kind of see like 28 different rotations, which is crazy to think about because that's 28 months, right. Like I spent more time in a tropia than most people probably deploy now in the military. But kind of kind of walking through that is, there was always a distinct difference between units, that kind of given to you based on your specific unit and the qualifications that you need to kind of achieve your mission if you get deployed. But there's a switch moment and I could only imagine, like when you were at basic training at that time, that there was probably a switch or a realization that everything that we're doing now isn't just training, it is a life or death type of event and if we fail we need to fail here.
Speaker 1:So when we do get to our units cause it was all uncertain I remember, you know I was in high school at the time, uh, and I may or may not you know I was a poor moral character at the time been playing sick that day.
Speaker 1:I said I didn't want to go to school at the time, been playing sick that day because I didn't want to go to school and I remember that vividly and kind of thinking about man like the future is so uncertain. I don't know what this means. And then you, who you chose to serve selflessly, being in basic training, kind of going through that one very like stressful state, but then realization is like, oh crap, the world has just changed, the, the whole dynamics have just changed. This is no longer just a game and someone yelling at me. This is a preparation or a fire, a crucible type event to purify me, to get ready for the, the game, the live show. And then that took me a while to kind of realize Uh, but for you, dude, you literally had to go through that the first day in the military, which is crazy.
Speaker 2:Pretty much, man, and you're absolutely right, and I think you know going back when I, whenever I was uh, uh, uh LRM, uh instructor uh Fort Knox, watching some of the basic training units that went through there and stuff like that- you know they they kind of goofed off a little bit more.
Speaker 2:They are kind of I don't know that they're being treated a little bit different. I don't know how to explain it, other than kind of what you you said is my entire company and, I imagine, all the companies around us at the same time. We took it like life or death. Yeah, 100%, because we're in the ready room watching the towers fall. In basic training they didn't shelter us from it, they didn't. Pretty much everything went on lockdown and we were in the ready room with our drill drill sergeants watching the towers fall and that was the biggest thing. You know, the like you said, this isn't a game, this is real and we all took it as real. So I think my, my basic training class I don't even remember what it was now, but my basic training class I think we probably took it a little more serious than most.
Speaker 1:So you get there, you go through basic training, you get to your unit kind of just walking through, like how I know the normal progression goes. When did you deploy, once you arrived at your unit, for of just walking through, like how I know the normal progression goes? When did you deploy, once you arrived at your unit for the first?
Speaker 2:time, uh, three, almost three months after I got there, because they were already deployed, so I had to go through what's it called? It's like. It's like a mini jrtc or ntc type thing.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm talking about I know exactly what you're talking about it. Basically it's kind of like a mini brigade sticks level event um, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what was it called? I can't remember what it's called, but anyway, I had to go through something like that. I had to get situated, um, because I, you know, I had a family, so we had to get them moved and situated. And then I met my unit up and, yeah, I was deployed. So I went from being a civilian to literally what was it? Six months. So literally about eight months after I left, I was downrange fighting. After I left, I was downrange fighting.
Speaker 1:When did you? When you first got to your unit?
Speaker 2:kind of have to get forced into a leadership role. You know, that was weird because they had already been deployed, they'd already been fighting, and then this brand new PFC shows up right, and you know, slick sleeve. You know, slick sleeve, you know no rank, no experience, no, nothing. I got treated pretty rough for a while. Um, they didn't trust me. It actually took another full rotation, I would say, before they finally fully trusted me.
Speaker 2:But you know, and given my state, I kind of took it too personal, I think, um not understanding, because I didn't understand the dynamic, right, I didn't understand the camaraderie, I didn't understand the, the temp, I didn't understand all that stuff. So for me, you know, looking in from the outside, I just felt excluded and I felt unwanted, I guess, um, but in reality you know these, looking in from the outside, I just felt excluded and I felt unwanted, I guess. But in reality, you know these, these dudes have been forged in fire and I hadn't been forged yet, I hadn't been proven yet. So totally understand now, but at the time it was pretty rough, I really hated it.
Speaker 2:And then we, we went to through our our full rotation again, and that's that's probably when I when they were like, okay, this dude, he's squared away, he knows his stuff, he can lead, and as a specialist, I got put into a team leader role because one of our NCOs unfortunately got killed, and so they gave me his team and I've been leading ever since I was almost 20 years old. It's like a month away, two months away from being 20.
Speaker 1:dude. Um. So two things with that. One is, I think, trust. So I I'm reading a book right now, uh, so I read um dare to lead. Now I'm reading dare greatly because I want to learn. You know how vulnerability kind of plays in with trust, but I see that there's there's really two different ways to to build trust, one of which is time.
Speaker 1:You just have to be with people and you, and it takes consistency. And then that effort, the amount of effort that you put into things. But's another level of that which is like vulnerability, not from the standpoint of where you know. I'm going to tell you all of my deep little secrets, right, or I'm just going to complain about everything or tell you how scared I am about stuff, but it's just being authentic and, I think, genuine, and and I bet you that this is just me being a betting man, kind of coming from the same cloth of when you had to take over that team.
Speaker 1:At that time, after that NCO passed away, you came in with a deep sense of humility, which probably came off as in a very vulnerable kind of state not vulnerable how most people think and you were probably able to gain trust rather quickly, I'm assuming, because people knew who you were. You spent time, the amount of effort that you're putting into it probably increased tenfold and you came into it probably with just a humble mindset. But if you don't mind, man, and and if we ever get to a point where you just don't want to talk about it. You just let me know and we'll keep going, because I I understand that, but walking in that shoes, how did you?
Speaker 1:how did you take over? You know that squad? Uh, what was some of your like first thoughts?
Speaker 2:well, the first, like sergeant carson and I, we were really close. He he's really the one that kind of molded me from the snot nose private into a soldier. He would and he was hard on me. Man like, I have a lot of four-letter words doing it to describe him. He was hard on me but, um man, after he died it was kind of it was kind of a given.
Speaker 2:I in the team that I was going to take over, like they all just kind of expected it and I just carried on exactly how I thought Sergeant Carson would do and the team respected that and you're right, humility played a big part in it. But I think the most vulnerable I got was I went to every single one of them and I'm like, look, I have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah, like, like y'all got this, like y'all got my back right, like we were about to go get shot at and I don't know what to do and you know they all had my back and at that point you know they all had my back and at that point you know it's different, because ego doesn't really have a place when people are shooting at your face. You know, like that's that's not the time to have ego and I think everyone understood that no one cared. We just cared about getting out of there alive. And I, man, they, just they. I wouldn't be the leader I am today if I hadn't been for every single one of those guys because they had my back and I don't know if it was because I went to them and almost with almost a plea of like I need y'all's help, I need y'all to have my back on this. Or if it was Sergeant Carson or just the army in general. I don't know, but to be honest, I've never actually thought about that until now. But a hundred percent vulnerability, you know and it's funny, I got lit up on LinkedIn because I wrote an article about that, about how we need to be vulnerable as leaders and everybody, man, I got no good comments from it at all. Everybody's talking about if they were vulnerable or whatever, then you know they would get eaten alive in their corporation or their company or whatever. And it's like dude, if that's the case, you're in the wrong place. Like that should never be the case. I should be able to.
Speaker 2:And a great story is a good friend of mine. She had made a very big mistake. We're talking a six figure mistake in her company and she went to her team and she was like, look, I screwed the pooch and this happened. And she said her, everyone in her team's first response was, oh my God, how did you do that? And then their second response was how can we help you fix it? That's what vulnerability does, right? That esprit de corps, that camaraderie, like all of that stuff that everybody's like, oh, you know, I wish we could be like the military has, like, with that camaraderie, that esprit de corps, you can. But being vulnerable is part of it, right? Because you know, I'm sure you, there have been times where you've had to go to your guys and be like, look, I have too much, I can't do all of this, I need y'all's help. And they're like okay, what do you need? Right, that's what it's about, and you know I like to talk about.
Speaker 2:You know SEALs or Green Berets or Rangers. You know each person on a SEAL team has a very specific job, very specific. Every single person on that team knows each other's job enough to help, not to necessarily be proficient, but enough to help. And there's a reason for that. You have an SME, a subject matter expert, and then you have people to help fill in in emergencies. Right, that is what makes that team so dynamic and so powerful, is you have one person you can just rely on, but that one person is relying on the other team or every single other team member to have his back, because he knows. You know, they may may not be the medical expert, but they can do a trick in a, in a pinch, if they got to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, so that that seal medic isn't going to be just dealing with a mass casualty all by himself. Right, like he's, his entire team is there to back him. And then that's where we get lost. And, dude, I never in my life thought I would. It blows my mind to this day when people that's not my job, yeah, like what 100? It's your job, bro, you get a paycheck. It's your job like. I don't understand that mentality. Help the team. If the team thrives, you thrive. If you thrive, the team thrives. I don't understand this mentality of me, me, me, me.
Speaker 1:I kind of go back to this concept now where I work in a civilian driven organization. So, like I'm in acquisitions now, I'm still an active duty army officer. That feel great. But I see there's different organizational structures. So you can be a government corps, which means basically you're siloed within that organization, you work for the government. Or you can be a matrix employee, which means you are contracted out by this organization to this army organization and, and the way I I kind of see that is that you have multiple different organizations you work for but you also have that loop, that thread between the two. You never you're always able to cover down on other people's kind of blind spots. The way that's the best way I like to think of it, versus being siloed in well, this is just my job and I only do this and I can't do anything else versus no, there's a thread of where you're at and where I'm at and you should be able to do everything that I can do proficiently, maybe not to the level that I can, which is okay, but we have to have that level of redundancy.
Speaker 1:We can't have single points of failures, because when a single point of failure goes down, then the system fails, and, at the primordial level, what we are is a system of systems. Every organization is a system of the system. And if you think of the soldier, like when we're actually deployed with our kit, we have our IOTV Well, that's a system because it protects us. We have our radio Well, that's a system because it communicates. We have our blue force tracker, our net warrior device, we have our goggles, we have our weapon, which extends, extends our operational reach. We have all these things that are systems that build upon each other. But if one goes down well, we potentially have another one, like you know, our 320 or for 40, micro or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:And it's getting that type of mindset within a civilian culture that I think, is one of the most challenging things to do, because they've always been raised Well, don't go above and beyond. Do what you're supposed to do to get paid for and then just be done for the day. Well, that's not how good organizations become great or extraordinary, that's how mediocre organizations stay mediocre. If you want to be part of a team that's mediocre, congratulations, get off my team. I don't want you on my team.
Speaker 2:And it's hard.
Speaker 1:You said this too. I remember when we were talking about the first time you knife tanned a civilian. We haven't even kind of got there yet in your leadership journey, but walk me through what. What happened the first time you knife tanned a civilian? And I'll tell you.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you a story after after that one um, I don't remember exactly what had happened and as to why I did it, but actually you know what I think. I think I do. Um, they want, they wanted to go home early and their work was done. And it's like, no, you don't get to go home early, like I don't care if your work's done, we're not done, the team isn't done. And they started giving me grief about it and I just I did a complete 180.
Speaker 2:And as I came around, you know I was done like that about face knife hand, like oh, dude, and it was, it was on point man, like it was a sniper kill, like just about, and it was like right at the tip of their nose. And it was like right at the tip of their nose, not touching them, just right there I was like you will not argue with me. And man, the look on their face, it was a cross between extremely ticked off, extremely scared and just confusion, not knowing what just happened. And so the next day that that wasn't that big of a deal, they, they just walked away and I thought there was the end of it Didn't even occur to me until the next day when my boss called me into his office.
Speaker 2:Thank God, this man was a retired soldier as well, so he knew exactly. But he, he was a long time retired, but he knew exactly what was going on, um, and so he had it. He actually I had it up on camera and he was watching it, he was watching it in the loop. So I walked into his office and I see it and I'm like you know I was a little bit off target, but that's pretty good, man, man and he's like you can't do this, dude.
Speaker 2:Like, what are you doing? This isn't how we talk to people. I'm like I didn't even raise my voice. I said it sternly, but I didn't raise my voice. He's like well, body language is a part of communication and this is not how we communicate. He's like that's how you communicate in the army, but that's not how we communicate here. And so that employee didn't actually speak to me, like face to face, speak to me for probably six months. Wow, like they were just mad, and I don't know if they're mad or if I scared them. I don't, I don't even know, but they just, from that day on, they hated me, hated my guts and, uh, it is what it is, man, you got a knife hand to deal with it. It's not like I touched you. I didn't hit you. Could have been much worse.
Speaker 1:All right, team. Let's take a quick break from this podcast and I want to personally invite you to our private Facebook community that I call Purposeful Accountable Leaders, or PALS. Purposeful Accountable Leaders or PALS and PALS is a community dedicated to inspiring and developing servant leaders by sharing transformational stories and skills Exactly what Tells the Leadership is all about. My goal is to build a community of like-minded leaders that can share lessons learned, ask questions and celebrate wins when it happens. And my mission in life is clear I will end toxic leadership by sharing transformational stories and skills, and you will find countless transformational leaders in this group. Many of them I have had the honor to serve with in the military. If you want to find a community that can help you grow, both personally and professionally, we would love to have you. You can simply search Purposeful Accountable Leaders on Facebook or click the Leadership Resources tab in the show notes to join. I am looking forward to seeing you guys and continuing to grow together on our leadership journey. Back to the podcast.
Speaker 1:So every time I kind of go into organization, the organization I work for now is just a different type of breed within acquisitions, so they kind of get that alpha-h mentality when it comes to like combat arms. But the last organization I worked for, po aviation, I kind of would always warn people like hey, you know, I have a knife hand. Sometimes I can't control it, and it comes out and just know that I love you and I mean nothing by it. But we were at a kickoff with one of our vendors that worked out and just know that I love you and I mean nothing, buy it. But we were at a uh, a kickoff with one of our vendors that worked out in san uh, san francisco, and I'll kind of keep you know all the names and stuff off and the program off. But we were sitting in this room and the bottom line is that you know they, they basically made drones for us and they were unwilling to talk about putting lethal payloads or secondary loitering munitions on it. And at the time and I'm sitting in this room and they've made this ethical decision as a company not to do it and I'm thinking to myself, okay, will you make an ethical decision not to do this, but you are actively potentially sending drones to countries that are being used to target for indirect fires. And I look in the room and I ask them what's more important to you a soldier's life, a son and daughter, or your moral high ground which you're already breaking.
Speaker 1:And it got to the point where I started knife handing basically the CEO of this multi-billion dollar organization and then everyone else within there the CFO, the CTO, all these other people and my chief engineer on my team kind of had to pull me away and separate me because he started like just igniting a fire inside of me that I could not get away from and because you and I kind of share like almost a similar story, not quite to the level of intensity you had, but when I took over my platoon in Afghanistan, I met my platoon for the first time and this was one of the most humbling moments of my life at Sergeant Rodriguez's memorial. So at that time, before I had an agenda right, I wanted to go be a platoon leader that was getting after it, going in and doing firefights, so I could go be a regimental platoon leader. That was my goal. Go be a regimental platoon leader. That was my goal, that was my entire aspiration, until I had a realization, or like a just a aha moment of wow man, I am being selfish, I'm coming in with an agenda. I see this organization that has not only had one, but several you know major incidents that they they deployed with 44. When I took over, they had 28 people left in the platoon and I realized that my goal is not for me, my mission is to get everyone back safely and it's not to be a spotlight ranger or what we like to call, you know, like a blue falcon in the military. It is to get every man and woman back safely.
Speaker 1:But I'm glad that that happened to me at such an early age because it changed me in terms of humility.
Speaker 1:And now I always kind of go back to that moment when I take over a team and the question that always pops in my mind is that who am I here for?
Speaker 1:Not, how can I benefit from this position and get more influence or more title or more rank and kind of going back to where you talked about of being, you know, being able to go that little bit of extra? I think that that's where it comes from, is people don't truly understand the definition of selfless service and humility because they have never went through those types of trials and tribulations. And that's the most unfortunate thing about leadership is that you have to go through pain in order to experience, and in that experience you gain wisdom, and that wisdom can be shared with other people. Some people may not want to hear it, but other people they may, and then some people may just get a knife hand to the face, we don't know. But, dude, kind of continuing with your, your leadership journey. Uh, talk me through, as you started progressing through the ranks, of how your leadership matured over the years so this is what?
Speaker 2:to me, this is the saddest story of my story because I didn't realize the army had bad leadership until I was about to retire.
Speaker 2:I never in my entire career had a bad leader. I mean, I had some that were better than others. Of course, I had some that were okay, but I never had anyone I could point to and be like that dude's a bad leader. Every single leader I had, every single one I worked with. They were a hot man, they were on fire, they loved their team, they loved the unit. They were on fire, they loved their team, they loved the unit, they loved the army. They loved what we did. We had a mission, we had a purpose, we were driven, we were driven together. That was my entire experience in the army.
Speaker 2:And then, when I was retired, when I was going through the med board process, I started talking to soldiers and they're like, yeah, this isn isn't like your, your stuff's a fairy tale, like that's not supposed to happen in the army. And it's like wait, what? Like you know, I didn't realize I was, I was the unicorn, and so that really opened my eyes, and so I kind of started exploring that just to see, because I was curious and yeah, sure enough, man, like there are some horrific leadership stories come that come from the army. Yeah, for me, though, you know, I had some of the most amazing leaders, man, you know I had a leader and I don't want to throw their names out because I don't I don't know entirely what they're all doing right now because I don't know entirely what they're all doing right now but you know, I had some that taught me when, where and how it was okay to cry right, because you know. They taught me how to control my emotion, how to go from being in combat one second and then going to the rear and dealing with the fact you just lost two dudes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's hard and you have to be able to control and deal with those emotions. And then you have you still have to be strong for you, for your team, for everyone around you, right for the mission. Like you, you can't lose strength, but you still have to deal with the emotion. I had leaders that taught me that. And then I had another leader that taught me the value of you know, I don't want to say fraternization, but it's okay to be the guy for your team. Yeah, like the army makes us so scared to be friends with our team. Like you can be. A careful friend is what I call it.
Speaker 2:Where where we're buddies and we hang out and we're talking, we're laughing, we're having a good time. But when it's time to work, you understand that. You respect me. You, you understand my decisions are final. It's not a debate, yada, yada yada. When I have to discipline you, you understand that. It's not personal, it's a job. We're professionals. This is how we handle things. And then, once we're done, we go back and we play some poker back in the rear. That's okay.
Speaker 2:I had a leader that taught me that. But we're so scared of fraternization and being too chummy. But without that openness and that transparency and just really letting them get to know you, they'll never fully trust you 100%. So you know, I had leaders that taught me the value of personal relationships.
Speaker 2:But, most importantly, I had a leader and I will throw his name out there, sergeant Patitucci, who taught me the value of always understanding your purpose and always being able to communicate your purpose to everyone around you, to everyone you're leading, everyone who's leading you, everyone who's leading you like, and I'm not just talking about the purpose of the mission, I'm talking about your purpose on that mission, your purpose for being on that mission.
Speaker 2:Your, you know every little detail that's brought you to the point, to where you stand right now, understanding that deep purpose, because ultimately, that purpose is what drives us. And at the beginning, when I was talking about that three and a half years, and at the beginning, when I was talking about that three and a half years of transitioning from the military to the civilian life, that is what happened to me is I lost my purpose. I had nothing to cling on to, I had nothing to drive me, to guide me, and with it wasn't a fact of, I didn't understand my purpose, I just didn't have one, and that almost, that almost killed me. And so I mean that's the biggest value. And so now, whenever I'm coaching people, when I'm teaching people, the very first thing is I ask them what is your purpose?
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I've actually gone out in public and surveyed people and I've been like what is your purpose? And I'm very generous with these numbers, very, very generous. One out of 10 people will give me an actual, okay purpose for their life. Three people will give me some BS answer. That's just fluff, has no substance at all and it's just whatever. It's lip service. And then the other six will just flat out say that they don't know. How sad is that? How do you live life and not know your purpose? And I'm not saying your purpose has to be making money and getting you know rich and have you know your. My mom's purpose was her children.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It wasn't glory, it wasn't fancy, it was. It was her kids, it was the four of us. That was my mom's purpose. My dad's purpose was to feed us and to raise us into men that were contributors to society. That was my dad's purpose. My purpose is to teach people, to influence people, to want to grasp leadership by the horns and go out and influence other people and change their lives. Right, but without that purpose, I have nothing to drive me and that leads down to that leads to chaos, depression, suicide, addiction, alcohol abuse, all that stuff. That's how we get there is because we lose our purpose. I'm sorry I took this the wrong way of what you originally asked.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry I took this the wrong way of what you originally asked me, dude. No, I love it Kind of getting down in that rabbit hole, and that's where I wanted to go. Next, anyway, is talk me through your transition out of the military. But I think you and I fully agree.
Speaker 1:I did not understand what my purpose was until I transitioned into acquisitions and I had the time to slow down and really reflect on my life the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it and really focus on what made me happy, truly happy in life, and why did it make me happy? And then I to me I remember when we talked on the phone is that I have an equation for fulfillment. I think balance is it's a word that's often used, but I think it's it's a lie a hundred percent Like. I think you can find fulfillment in life, but you cannot chase balance, because all you're doing is you're chasing the dopamine fueled spike. You may have balance at a fleeting moment in time, but then again life becomes unbalanced. But you have to be okay with that. It's like there's a quote out there by someone that says you can't control the ocean, but you can learn to surf a wave. That's kind of the goal in life is you just need to learn how to ride that wave and be okay with the journey and the destination.
Speaker 1:And when I realized, okay, my passion, this is what I love doing. I love being a leader, I love being in a servant role, I love serving others. My purpose why am I put on this earth? And I think there's two distinct purposes, at least for me. I have a distinct family purpose, very similar to like your father, like my legacy is going to be my children, and I want to have amazing adults. I want my daughter to be the best version of herself and she's already better than me, way better than me. I'm telling you right now she I'm gonna have her on the podcast, actually in November, because that that young woman is so inspiring to me.
Speaker 2:How old is she?
Speaker 1:She's 10. So just a couple stories for her right. So she never wrestled before in her life. She got fourth in the States in Alabama for All Girls Wrestling Championship.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:She was the leading soccer score goal, the leading score in her club for soccer. Last year we moved to DC. She's already making a name for herself in soccer. She constantly wins chess matches and she wins like math stuff and all those crazy things. Her hobbies is doing art projects and reading and all of these things.
Speaker 1:And I remember, man, when I was nine or 10 years old, what was I doing? It's probably eating crayons or doing something. I grew up in rural West Virginia, so you know, use your imagination on what I was doing at that age. But and and how I see her and it's so inspiring playing soccer, especially at a goalie position. She is commanding and controlling her team, but she doesn't do it from this position of where, like I am the leader hear me roar she does it from this very humble mentality of giving out clear, concise orders, and I love this quote by Brene Brown. Is that being clear is being kind, being unclear is being unkind, but she, she is going to be amazing or whatever she chooses to do, and I would love to just kind of bring her on on here and pick her brain.
Speaker 1:But so now I went down the sidetrack. But anyway. So passion, what? What you're passionate about? Finding your purpose and and really crafting that down and and homing it in to what you, you want it to be. And then, what is your perspective in life? You have to have a vision. How are you going to get there? You can't, you can say all the words, but you have to have D's and words aligned to actually gain momentum, traction force plus acceleration times, momentum, all of those things we have to be able to do in life.
Speaker 1:But so I fully agree with you. I think purpose is something that is absolutely critical, especially for military service members who transition. It doesn't matter what your rank is, too burr colonels get out of the military who you would think on paper, would have the most fulfilling retirement in the world because they're making, like you know, fifteen thousand dollars a month. Money is no longer an option or or an obstacle for you, but they're still. They're still stressed and they're still depressed, and it's because they have no purpose. They had this deep sense of purpose and responsibility, authority in the, but when they transitioned out, it's just all gone. But kind of walk me through your transition, man, like what were some of the biggest challenges that you had to face and how you overcome that. How did you overcome those challenges?
Speaker 2:Man, how dark am I allowed to go? Man, how dark am I allowed to go? Uh, pg-13 oh boy that'll be hard.
Speaker 1:Okay, you go wherever you want, brother no, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't. We're plus, we're alive. You know, people are got their kids around. I don't want to upset their kids, but uh.
Speaker 2:So first of all, my med board was unexpected. I it was semi unexpected. I kind of expected it, but I didn't expect it. Right then I thought I was going to be. I had a legitimate thought that I was going to be able to squeak out 20 at least and um, in hindsight, when I look back now, the Army made the 100% right call on getting me out. I was a detriment to the team and that's great. Good on them. They did it right.
Speaker 2:But I felt jaded nonetheless. Like you know, I felt like I'd gotten screwed. So I was mad at the Army. I was mad at my then wife. I was mad at my kids. I was mad at the army. I was mad at my then wife. I was mad at my kids. I was mad at the world. I got into the civilian world where no one spoke my language and, like this is why I get so jazzed talking to people like you, because I can start talking in all the acron. They don't really believe me that I can speak an entire sentence. I'm probably doing an entire paragraph and just acronyms, and to the right person it's going to make sense.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:And, like you know, no one spoke my language. Like with the knife hand incident, I wasn't trying to be aggressive or hurtful, it was just I was conveying my seriousness on the matter of. You aren't going to question me, but I didn't mean disrespect. But they didn't speak my language, they didn't understand my communication, any of it. I would say the hardest thing I had to deal with was just the lack of motivation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw in everyday people, the people that just they had no fire, like they're almost like robots, and I see, I still see it every day people that are just kind of going through the motions of their life. And it breaks my heart because I've seen, I've seen people literally live their life, yeah, and unfortunately those lives got cut short, but I've seen what it truly means to live your life. And then now I see what it's like to just go through the motions and it's like man, you're missing on. It's like looking at a Picasso that's in black and white and then you get a look at a Picasso that's in full color, right, that to me, that's the difference. Like you're just going through the motions, you just see the Picasso in black and white, but when you really start trying to live your life. That's when you see it in full color and it blows your mind. You learn to not take things for granted, like a beautiful sunrise. You learn not to take things for granted, like your puppy just being an absolute nut. My wife and I just got a German shepherd. She's five months old and she is so much fun. But you know, that was so hard for me, just seeing people and I would try to talk to them and I would tell them right, because I know like my life almost got cut short several times, one time closer than the others. Literally I died a few times and they had to bring me back. And I know like I'm not going to fall into that trap again of just going through the motions. I'm going to live my life every single day. But seeing all of this right when I started to transition, it was so overwhelming and so shocking to my system because I had never experienced this before. It just sunk me down to this deep depression and I didn't know this at the time, but apparently I'm an emotional leader, which I guess to an extent we all are, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So when I left the army I weighed 220 pounds. I could run my two mile in just under 14 minutes and was it 10 months later after I left? I weighed 300 pounds. So I gained 80 pounds in 10 months and I couldn't run anymore. I was, you know, every joint in my body hurt, every bone in my body hurt. I got migraines all the time. I, just I, started falling down this deep spiral. The more weight I gained, the more depressed I got. The more depressed I got, the more weight I gained, the further out of shape I got, the further withdrawn from my wife and kids I got and just I just continued down this deep, deep, deep spiral until finally it was just, it was almost that ultimate ticket you know out. Fortunately for me, I met, you know, ended up going through a real nasty divorce and then I met my now wife, who snapped me out of it and she really made me realize what my problem was.
Speaker 2:I met my now wife, who snapped me out of it, and she really made me realize what my problem was. I lost my purpose, and so when I met her, she gave me a new purpose, and that purpose was her, which I understand. Most psychologists will say that's not healthy, which is true, I won't argue, but it's. It was enough to snap me out of my funk. And then now, now I have a fully defined purpose and now I'm reliving my life again and I can go deeper if you want, but it gets pretty dark and scary in there. But uh, I think that's as much PG 13 as I can go.
Speaker 1:When did you first realize that a coach was going to kind of help you? And did you? Did you seek out finding a coach, or was that kind of like just stumbled into?
Speaker 2:so um to help me through that process. I didn't, I didn't ever have a coach. I I had um a couple of mentors which I you know. To me, a coach is someone I pay. A mentor is someone that's close to me that does it for free.
Speaker 1:That's a good question. I was going to ask you what's the difference between a coach and a mentor?
Speaker 2:So you know, a mentor is personally invested in your success because they love you and they want to see you succeed. A coach is personally invested in your success but it's because you pay them to do so, which both are okay, both are one. You know, I paid when I started my business. I paid $30,000 for a year of coaching, um, from just one person. So I mean, but anyway, so when it came to this, my, my transition, you know, I just I got lucky and and you know, my boss, that I was telling you about watching me knife hand people on a loop Um, he really, he identified it in me early on and he really, man, he, he was such a godsend because he could just kind of nudge me and I respected the hell out of the guy and he would just kind of nudge me and kind of keep me kind of off the ledge.
Speaker 2:I guess you could say yeah, and then, like I said, my wife is the one that fully just bum, rushed me and beat me half to death and got me to snap out of it Figuratively. Um, she's only five foot tall, a hundred pounds, there's no way she can beat me up. But, um, but yeah, she, she's the one that really just kind of snapped me out of it. Um, when it came to my business, though, I'm a big believer in not reinventing the wheel. So you know, you're you're an expert in acquisitions, you, you know, if I'm a platoon sergeant and I need to acquire something, you know you're going to be the guy yeah, you're going to be the guy that I go to to help coach me through that process, because why reinvent the wheel when someone already knows how the wheel rolls?
Speaker 2:but at the end of the day, now, the way I look at it, man, did you know tom brady had a mechanics coach? No, yeah, tom brady had a mechanics coach. So he had a coach, literally that would coach him on the position of every angle of his arm through the throwing process. Oh wow, like he had a footwork coach. That really all his. He just coached him on the placement of his feet when he was moving and throwing the ball right. He had a throwing coach he had, like all these coaches, when you look at an actor, you know you'll have an actor, will have a coach for a southern accent, for a northern accent, like they'll have. And it might be the same coach, but they're getting coached on different aspects of their what, what's going on at that time in their career?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my point is like, you know, politicians, how many coaches does a paula, you know, brock obama, you know speaking coach? Uh, you know writing. Politicians, actors, musicians, professional athletes they all have tons of coaches. Why wouldn't you have a coach for the biggest challenge you're ever going to face, which is your life. Nothing is more complex than our life. So do I think life coaching is a thing? Heck, yeah, man, everybody should have a life coach, everybody should have a leadership coach, everyone should have a business coach. Everyone should have, like all these things, a fitness coach, a diet coach, like, and you know, one coach can be multiple things. But again, like you know, man, if Tom Brady needs a coach just for the mechanics of his arm, you definitely need a coach for the mechanics of your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Dude, undisputed too that he's, and I really do not like Tom Brady.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can't stand him.
Speaker 1:I am not a Patriots fan, but undisputed that he is probably the the the greatest quarterback ever.
Speaker 2:but he wasn't that good yeah, he's from michigan um he was.
Speaker 1:No, he got drafted in the fifth round uh, he sat the bench, like he wasn't that great the beauty about him and his story is the power of consistency and hard work, and then just discipline.
Speaker 2:And being able to be coached.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So curiosity, being committed and being coachable and always being that way, I think when I read something that he spent like millions of dollars a year to try to stay young, not from a night, like a vein point of view, of, like you know, going through facials and stuff like that, but his body, his joints, of being able to stay healthy and if you look at it, I mean it paid off. The, the dude you know, transitioned from a team to go play for Tampa which arguably, before he even got there was, was not a Superbowl contender. And then they get there and they win the Superbowl and I thought for sure he sold his soul to the devil in that moment. It's like there's no way Tom Brady man and kudos to him, like as a person he is probably a phenomenal individual. But I think an aspect too of looking at it from Tom Brady because I thought about this is he doesn't even have it all together in life, right Like net football crushed it life. He lost his wife and his kids.
Speaker 1:I mean that's that, that's, that's a tough challenge, um, and you know, I don't know the whole story behind it, but I think that that's just a beautiful example of it is you can meet, reach the pinnacle of success in an area of your life and just be rock bottom. And other areas of your life and I think we've all had that like being in the military, I'm sure you you understand this vividly is that you can just be crushing it, be on cloud nine and come home and everything just be falling apart, and that's just. That's just. That's just the nature of life. So I fully agree a life coach is needed because sometimes we can't weather the storm that life throws at us and we need to have that accountability tree.
Speaker 1:That's what I like to call, like your ranger buddy, but accountability tree, someone who's deeply rooted, that is unwavering, doesn't want to hear your excuses, you can't just push them out of the way but it is also able to provide shade. So when times do get tough, they can kind of mentor you or coach you along the way, give you a thread to how to get to success. But talk me through man to get to success. But talk me through man. You know, you what's? Why did you want to start Renewed Leadership, your coaching company that you're currently on right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Renown Leadership.
Speaker 1:I wrote it down wrong, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:No, you're good, You're good. You wouldn't believe how often that happens. Wrong, I'm sorry. No, you're good, you're good. You wouldn't believe how often that happens. I, I wanted to start it because I I hate the fact that they're just, and you know it's funny when I go talk to a lot of these quote-unquote bad leaders.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of the times they don't even realize they're bad leaders.
Speaker 2:Yep, they don't even have a clue yeah, they don't have a clue that they're doing the wrong thing. All that happened was they went through a couple of months of management training. They got taught how to run the software, check the boxes, stand at the door, tell everyone what a great job they did today, thank them for working and then hand out some gift cards every month or every quarter or whatever. And to them, that's what leadership is. They don't understand that it goes so much deeper. And in order to be a good leader and you know, like you've said several times, like you talk about being a servant leader, which, in my opinion, is the best kinds of leader being a servant leader but there there are many different types of leaders. They all have their purpose, they all have their value and I won't throw shade at any of them. But you have to understand your type of person. Your personality allows you to be a servant leader. My personality allows me to be a servant leader. Some other people, their personality, doesn't allow that for them. They can still be amazing leaders, though. They just have to be taught the way to be an amazing leader. And so you know I'm a great example. You know my boss, you know the kind of mentored me after I transitioned out of the army. He wasn't a servant leader. Well, I don't know if you're listening to this, eric. I'm sorry if you consider yourself a servant leader. I never did. But it's not to throw shade at him. That just wasn't his style. He was very cut and dry and he was very by the book and he was very strict and he was very unpersonable. Now eventually I learned the soft side of him. But to most people outside looking in, they just thought he was a jerk. But every single person that worked for him knew that he loved them dearly because he showed it in different ways by taking care of them Right. So it wasn't necessarily servant leadership, but he was a great leader in that regard. So that's why I started. It is because I want to teach people.
Speaker 2:If you want to be a leader, there are a plethora of ways to do it, do it right, but at the end of the day it comes down to your people, and you know it's. It's very simple. First you have to know your purpose. We already talked about that. Then you have to know your. Why, see, people get, get confused. They think purpose and why are the same thing and they're not. They're two exactly or two opposite things. Your purpose is very personal.
Speaker 2:Close to you, your why is very world broad view, your why, is your purpose being displayed to the world? Basically, basically. So you have to be able to define your why and then we go all the way to the other end of the compass to identify our integrity, because the way you operate, the way you're comfortable operating, may be completely different than the way I'm comfortable operating. So you know, a good example is one of my business partners I was, you know, I had a potential client lie to me and I knew he was lying to me and it's just like nope, I'm not working with you. And she's like well, it's money, like who cares? If he lied to you, I'm like I care. If he lied to me, I'm not. That's my integrity. No, absolutely not. If you want to work with him, that's fine. If you want to work with him, that's fine. I'll send them to you. I don't care. But I am not going to work with you, do not lie to me. And so she's okay with that, that's great. I'm okay with her being okay with that. That's not my integrity, that's not. That's not where I operate. And then, once we have those three things, then in the center of it is kind of what you talked about earlier. That's where I put your goals, goals, so it could be your personal goals, your company goals, your professional goals, all these things that gets set in the center of your compass, that kind of balances, the needle, and so you got your purpose all the way down south, you got your integrity all the way up north and, as long as you stay in line and you're going to attack your goals every single day, and that's kind of how I teach it obviously, obviously a lot more in depth, but I just want everyone to understand leaders.
Speaker 2:One aren't born. You and I weren't born the way we are. We were taught over years and years of forging and training to be the way that we are. Any good leader is taught. Martin Luther King was not born the leader he was. He was taught to be that way by his parents, by his grandparents, by his aunts and uncles, by society around him. He was taught to be that way. Now, he was very charismatic. That is something you can possibly be born with. He was very well-spoken, very communicative. That is something you can be born with. But the actual leadership part he was taught that you know JFK, George Washington, all of them. They're taught to be that way and I want people to know that, and I just think about how much of a better place the world would be if we had a whole bunch of leaders instead of a whole bunch of managers, not throwing shade at managers. Managers are needed, very needed, but we also need leaders as well.
Speaker 1:I always think of the cartoon between leaders and managers is that a manager is sitting at their desk kind of pointing at something that needs to get done and that thing is a rock right, that just has to get rolled up a hill. And they're sitting there in their barking orders. A manager manages, they oversee, a leader demonstrates, and then they get their hands dirty with the team. They, they model the way and they continue to inspire. I think that's the difference, probably, between motivation and and and inspiration. I'd be interested to hear your, hear, your, uh, your, definition between those two.
Speaker 1:But there was something that you said, and I really want to hit on that real quick, is that there is no right leadership style, and I've seen this with senior leaders, that they do not know the type of leader that they are because they don't understand their core values, they don't understand their beliefs, they don't understand the principles that make them them.
Speaker 1:So they emulate other people around them, and that is the worst thing that you can do, because when you emulate, you are coming off as an unauthentic, disingenuous person, and that is, as a leader, the one thing that you cannot do, because you can never gain trust. And I had Oak McCulloch I think he was the first person I had on my podcast. I love that dude. He talked about a quote he's a retired lieutenant colonel is that trust is the currency that leaders wield. And if you can't gain trust, you can't gain influence. And if you can't gain influence, you can't inspire other people to go do things that need to be done, to kind of just move forward. But I'll pause there because I know I said a lot.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I was actually wanting to jump back to that, but before you even brought it up and you were talking about trust earlier, and it's like you know, the number one way I find to build trust within my team is to just show up at their workstation and let them lead me. Right, I don't show up as their boss, I show up as their hired hand, like what do you? Right? I don't show up as their boss, I show up as their hired hand, like what do you? How can I help you? Okay, you need me to put this together. Okay, you know how. You know, I'm sure I'll know how to do it or whatever I start putting it together, but I'm not leading this workstation. This is their workstation to lead, not mine, right? So you know, oh, morris, I need you to put that down and go sweep the floor over there because we made a mess.
Speaker 2:Okay, I go pick up a broom and I run a broom Like I am below running a broom dude, like I am below any of this, like I go get my hands dirty. And the second they see me do that, like that's instant respect, that's instant trust. Like the more they see you do that, like that's instant respect. That's instant trust. Like the more they see you do that, the more it grows. It's just like a snowball, just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I hear people all the time to be like dude, like I am so buried in paperwork. I would love to do that, I don't have time. Well, no one said being a leader is easy. Yeah, sometimes you've got to show up to work four or five hours early to get that paperwork done so you can be on the floor working with your people, setting the example, being the inspiration, being the motivation like that is what being a leader is all about.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it sucks I kind of go back to a quote. Uh, I I don't know know if Aristotle actually said this or not, but I'm going to attribute to Aristotle, but I live my life by this. If you ever get an email from me and work I've had it in my title block since I've been a lieutenant is that we are what we repetitively do. Excellence, then, is an act, it's a habit, and that is true. And as a leader, right like when I was in company command, there was things that I wanted to go do. I was the first person in my company as 5, 530, because I had to literally unlock the door and sometimes I would not leave till seven o'clock at night and in the wintertime.
Speaker 1:Dude, how depressing is that when you show up Dark is dark, yeah, and it's leaving and it's dark, but that is the definition of being in a leadership role, is? It's not about you? You have to get things done and in work right now, sometimes I'm the last person to leave. I leave at six o'clock because every Friday I want to send up a roll up. Hey, in the last 96 hours, this is what our team has accomplished. The next 96 hours, this is what our team has accomplished, and I will not feel satisfied until I get that email out. So even if I'm at work till like 630 at night, well, I'll be damned, I'm going to stay there and I'm going to get it done.
Speaker 1:Because that quote always plays in my mind you are what you repetitively do, josh. Don't, don't give in to the easy button. Yeah, you could leave right now, you could, but you're not going to, and I kind of just keep playing that over and over. Dude, I didn't realize it's already an hour and 11 minutes of the time. I'm trying to be respectful of your time, but this is good man we can talk about.
Speaker 2:I don't care, this is what I do, man Podcast, let's go, let's go.
Speaker 1:So one thing I'd love to kind of you know transition to from you, you start your, your, your coaching company. You have such a a deep purpose that I think all of us share. Where do you want to take this? You know, like the next five to 10 years, walk, walk me through your vision and the impact that you want to make.
Speaker 2:So I don't want to give away too much, because some of this is classified. You don't have clearance. You don't have clearance. No, my coaching is just funds. Right, it's funding my company so I can go do other work, and here soon. I think you said what You're 16, almost 17?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, almost so here in a couple of years you're going to be going through. When I went through it was called TAPC. I think it's called something else now, something TAPS, slf, taps or something like that, I don't know. But anyway, the TAPS program is what this mandatory program we have to do when we retire ETS get out of the army, basically, or military and it sucks and it's absolutely useless and it prepares us for absolutely nothing. My long-term goal is to develop a program that replaces that with coaches, that every soldier gets a coach to help them transition.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily like the way I work with my clients now, where I'm in their business. I know their life, I know their finances, I know everything about them. Not necessarily like that just to someone kind of handhold them through the process, because the numbers don't lie and the numbers aren't going down and I'm sick of seeing our brothers and sisters die for stupid reason. We know the solution and I'm going to fix it solution and I'm going to fix it, and so you know I just need money, and so that's that's what this is doing. It's getting me to a place to where I can fund this other venture. Start throwing money at it and go get our government on board with it, so that we can start saving lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I started thinking about this a long time ago. The entire Iraq and Afghanistan conflict, and I'm just throwing swags out there. Anyone listening? This is just off the top of my head, just rough math, and I'm going to do it in public, which is dangerous.
Speaker 2:You know, they say, the most dangerous grunt is the grunt that can do math.
Speaker 1:So we're going to see how dangerous you are math.
Speaker 1:So we're gonna, we're gonna see how dangerous you are. So, yeah, iraq, afghanistan, roughly, you know one thou or six thousand soldiers, you know. Kia, um, plus or minus a thousand. Now think about that in a rough order of of magnitude 22 soldiers a day, you know. Pass away rough, you know rough order. Soldiers a day, you know. Pass away rough, you know rough order. Now, equate that, you know, to 10 days, that's 220. And then, what about? You know, 20 days, that's 440. And then start applying Moore's law to that. Now, times that by four, times that, by eight, at the end of the year you're probably around a figure, well over a hundred thousand in any in a year. Uh, which is man? I don't even know if that's close or not. Um, but think about, like the entire time, the conflict.
Speaker 1:We're gonna have to put this on the calculator for the entire time right now two thousand and and one to to now, I will say, when the end of gy error kind of ended, what, what is that number? I'm going to say it was about 160 oh bro, it's 160 600. See that gun show all day long.
Speaker 2:You're a dangerous grunt.
Speaker 1:I'm a dangerous grunt, so I have a systems engineering master's degree. I keep that on the DL, dude, and I just think about that. I could have, you could have, and it's not a bad thing. We could have probably saved one of those lives, one life that we could have saved out of there and that's what I do every day, like I don't get paid for any of this stuff, like getting to talk to awesome people like you, steven. I do it because I'm hoping someone out there will resonate with someone's story and reach out and then maybe what we did saved a life.
Speaker 1:And that's kind of my vision for my next 10 years is I want to impact 1 million lives in the veteran and the military community for good, for a positive change, to show, hey, you can still have a life outside the military or you can still be a good leader in the military and not be an a-hole.
Speaker 1:There's ways to do it. Just be that inspiration like matthew, chapter 5, verse 14 be that light up on the hill right. That's what I want to be in that darkness, and I sure you share the same thing. We want to be that light. It doesn't matter how dark it is, the light will always overcome. You just need to be that beacon, and kudos to you, dude. That is a tough but awesome mission and as you continue to progress on that, I and I'm serious because it's something that I want to to stay connected with of how I can help and even people that I have on my show that that can help you get to your goals faster, cause, like you talked about this before, if you're successful, I'm successful, right. Well, if you're successful, the army is successful and maybe we saved a life along the way which we're chasing significance, right, we're not chasing success. That that's, that's.
Speaker 2:That's powerful brother yeah, know, and I've had many friends commit suicide, unfortunately, yeah, and I was almost, you know, fell prey to it myself, yeah. So I mean I would just say, you know, it doesn't have to be that way, right, looking back now, if I just had someone to tell me the problem, because I was so inundated into the problem I couldn't see it Right. And that's what I tell people coaching is. I compare coaching to being a sniper. Right, because you have, you have your, your shooter right and your shooter's hyper-focused on his target. He sees nothing else around him except his target. But then you have your spotter and don't light me up, if I understand, this is not a hundred percent an accurate description but then you have your spotter that sees the entire three, 60 of the battlefield and is protecting his shooter. Now I understand again, I understand there is much more to it than that, but keep in mind I'm dealing with civilians and I'm not going into the finite details of what you know like ballistics, yeah, of course all this effect.
Speaker 2:Keep in mind I'm dealing with civilians and I'm not going into the finite details of what you know Ballistic, yeah, coriolis, effect, dope. But I mean like there are so many dangers that can come up on that shooter while he's focused on his target that the spotter has to protect him from. That's what a coach is man. He's your spotter. He sees the things you can't see. And I wish man three and a half years of my life wasted because I was chasing demons down a dark hole when all it took was just someone to go stop.
Speaker 2:This is what you're doing and it took. You know, I understand it takes the right person, it takes love, it takes a lot of things. I understand that I'm not going to be able to fix everyone's problem. I understand that this isn't necessarily everyone's experience, but it was mine, and if it was mine, I know it's plagued other people and I'm a strong person. I'm strong mentally, I'm strong physically, strong emotionally and if it almost brought me to my knees, I guarantee you it's brought other people to theirs. So you know that's my mission, dude. I have to do something, because if I don't, you know, if I don't do it, who will?
Speaker 1:There's a story that kind of reminded me of is that we all have our demons and it doesn't matter how strong you think you are, sometimes those demons always overcome us. And the story of Kurt Angle right, so this dude won a gold medal with a broken neck, but because which is absolutely insane wrestling, because wrestling is like one of the most physical sports that you can have. And then winning at such a high level with a broken neck is just to me unfathomable. But the dude afterwards, going into like professional wrestling and that whole rabbit hole, got addicted to opioids. And if someone with that level of mental fortitude and discipline that can win a gold medal with a broken neck and the hard work and dedication even to get to that level, can become addicted or become overcome by by the darkness, then then we all can, can be Um, and so yeah, again, kudos to you.
Speaker 1:And one of the last questions before we kind of get to our final show segment is and I always love asking this is the very end of based on, like, whatever your, your skill sets are, you're, you're, you're a soldier. And you went back to the point of saying, um, you're, you're a warrior, right? What advice would you give to that brand new private is just joining the army right now is just joining the army right now.
Speaker 2:Shut your face hole and listen.
Speaker 1:I love it. And I don't think you're going to hear that very often in the military nowadays there's a totally different way of educating versus how it used to be.
Speaker 1:I'm not very PC. Well, I say this from a standpoint is that sometimes you have to be that tough leader Like the foundation that I am is meekness, and I don't see meekness as being weak. I think of being reserved, listening to everything. But when you speak people listen and you're decisive when you do act. But sometimes people just need hard truths and especially when you're forging someone into a soldier, I don't need a soldier to question me or second guess me when we're making a decision on the battlefield that is going to cause someone to die. And it could be that individual who's freezing up Cause. I've seen that. I've seen what happens when people freeze up and and and firefights.
Speaker 2:But yeah, but you overcame it though. Um, thank god I had a good sergeant. It only happened once, but yeah, man like, just look like I get it the army's hard. You know, the military is hard, not just the army, all branches are hard except the air force I had to someone has to make our coffee for us. Yeah, you ever. You ever get to eat at a air force defect, like in the green zone?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, I went to uh go into iraq for the last deployment. I flew into araf john in kuwait and I got. I got a chance to sit in their defect and I felt like man.
Speaker 2:I should not be here.
Speaker 1:It's too nice. So and of course I get this mound of food, like I'm at Shoney's like all you can eat buffet type thing, and they're just looking at me and I'm like what? It's free food, bro, free food Dude.
Speaker 2:It's crazy Like I'll never forget. We I don't remember what year it was, but we had been out operating out of a patrol base, out in the middle of freaking nowhere for months and months, and months and we show up to the green zone. Actually it wasn't the green zone, it was FOB Falcon, maybe I don't remember, but they had a bangin' DFAG that's Army for Dining Facility. So they had a bangin defect dude and we walked in and they had real plates and real like silverware, not flatware, like it was legit silverware and like. We were just amazed at this legit plate and it's like man, it's not flimsy cardboard like and this fork's not gonna break when I try to, and it's like dude.
Speaker 2:You would be amazed at the luxuries we have here in the united states and our first world problems when that's taken away from you and you're just like, oh my god, this is amazing. But anyway, no, real quick though, because I know we're alone really long. You asked me a question I didn't get to answer. I want to answer real quick. You asked me what the difference between my opinion on motivation and inspiration, and this is where I think 99.9% of us get it wrong, and I'm guilty of this myself. We think we need to motivate our people and I know you, being a soldier, you hear it all the time False motivation is better than no motivation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We focus solely on motivation and we think motivation and inspiration are the same thing. But they're not. They're two completely separate things. You see, motivation the second. You get that alarm going off at four o'clock in the morning and no one is telling you that you have to be up at four o'clock in the morning to go do PT. You're going to hit the snooze button because you're only operating off of motivation, right? Motivation quits when it gets hard.
Speaker 2:Inspiration is going to keep going. It's that fire inside of you that pushes you to not ring the bell, that pushes you to keep pushing, even though you're hurt, you're shot up, you're cut up, you're blown up, whatever the case may be in the civilian world. That is inspiration. That's what keeps you going. We've all seen the movie Lone Survivor and know the story of them. The reason they were able to fight, even though they were just completely outnumbered and destroyed, is because they were inspired by each other.
Speaker 2:And that's what we have to be as leaders. We have to be that inspiration, like you were saying earlier, that light. We have to be that fire that just spreads to our entire organization, inspires the crap out of them to go do the thing whatever, whatever it is. Maybe it's a mission in combat, maybe it is developing a new drug, I don't know. But we have to be that. Inspiration, motivations on the individual. It's your responsibility to get motivated, not my responsibility to motivate you, but it's my job to inspire you and you use that inspiration to get motivated anyway one of the quotes I always, always go back to, because I see leadership as inspiration.
Speaker 1:As leaders, we inspire. It doesn't matter if it's ourselves, if it's others it doesn't matter, because to inspire, in my word, is a verb. It's to be a catalyst for action, and I always go back to the quote by John Quincy Adams always go back to it. And if your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you're a leader. That is the best definition I have ever found in such a short, concise role of what leadership is. It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same four questions that I ask every guest on the Tales of Leadership podcast Be brief, be brilliant, be present and be gone. Question one what do you believe separates a good leader from an extraordinary leader?
Speaker 2:A good leader from an extraordinary leader. A good leader from an extraordinary leader Love.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't think I've heard that one and I love it All right. So question two what is one resource that you could recommend to our listeners to help them grow on their leadership?
Speaker 2:Read the book Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller. It's about sales. I understand that, but having the ability to tell a story and communicate a vision is paramount as a leader, and this book is going to help you do that.
Speaker 1:That book is phenomenal. I second that. So number three if you could give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Just keep doing what you're doing. I wouldn't change a thing.
Speaker 1:And then the last one where can our listeners find you? And then how can they add value to your mission?
Speaker 2:Wasn't expecting that last part. That's why I laughed. I wasn't expecting that last part. That's why I laughed. Go to renownedleadershipcom R-E-N-O-W-N-E-D leadershipcom. There's a connect button there. There's a book a call with me. It's completely free to book a call with me, so just click that and you're going to talk to me. If you're interested in being on the podcast, there's a way you can shoot me an email on there for it to come be on my podcast and all that. So yeah, and to bring value to my mission. Be patient with veterans. Man Like man. I don't that's such a hard question to answer, but be just be patient. Like most of us, don't think you were entitled to anything. We think we're entitled to nothing, but it it just comes off wrong because you don't understand us. We aren't speaking. The our communications are two different frequencies.
Speaker 1:Just be patient, show them some love and I promise you'll have a great friend for the rest of your life, dude steven. This has been a phenomenal episode. Brother, I always say that this is my favorite episode. Well, now, this is my new favorite episode, um I appreciate it, my man. I had a lot of fun really yeah, so don't let this be the last time we talk, but have a great night and I look forward to being inspired by where you take your your next steps.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, man. Have a good night bud.
Speaker 1:All right team. That was a phenomenal episode with Stephen and I had several key takeaways. The big one, before we even start in our three, was just the level of vulnerability that Stephen shared. Stephen is a phenomenal leader and, to kind of go through that, I want you to think about that. Right, you've done something so deeply, so passionately for 16, going on 17 years, and then you have to stop cold turkey and you get removed from that organization for no fault of your own because of a service-related issue, and then having to start life anew. Put yourselves in that position mentally and understand how tough that is. And again, this is the beauty about podcasting I get to talk to phenomenal leaders that you may not have ever heard, but now you have. You heard his story and you understand that there are heroes out there that go through traumatic events, but they don't let the darkness overtake them. Right In Matthew 5, verse 14, we are a light on that hill. Leaders are lights on the hill. They inspire.
Speaker 1:So the first key takeaway that I got is mediocre, is only doing your job and I see this in the civilian side more than I have in the military of where people just feel this sense of entitlement to where I only need to do what is clearly defined within my scope and we see this too within like the quiet, quitting culture that is in an organization. I will tell you, if you ever work for me and you have that mentality of where you are just going to do enough to get by, you will not be working for me. I want servant leaders around me that is willing to cover the blind spots and the dead space for others, and the key word there is redundancy Able to do my job just as well, if not better, than me, willing to do things for others when they need that help. I don't want the individual who is a clock chaser that watches the clock at a time and leaves. I want the individual who trains to a standard, not to time. Mediocre organizations remain mediocre. Great organizations become extraordinary when they create the culture and they have that type of leadership that chooses to serve others versus themselves. So remember that If you're going to be mediocre, you're always going to be mediocre, and if you're working in an organization that has that mediocre level of performance, really reflect on it and think about where you want to go in life.
Speaker 1:The next key takeaway that I have is understanding your purpose life. The next key takeaway that I have is understanding your purpose. Purpose is critical in life because it provides a anchor point, a firm foundation of where we want to go in life and being able to clearly communicate that and the way Steven kind of talks about that is a purpose is clearly communicated. The purpose of this mission is to do X Y Z. The purpose of this piece of equipment is to do X Y Z. Well, what is the purpose of your life? Why are you on this planet? And when you can begin to connect that, you can begin to gain momentum in life? Because now you're working towards something, something that inspires you.
Speaker 1:Remember my definition of leadership is to inspire. That is what leadership is. It is to be the light, not just for yourself, not just for your team, but everyone around you. And then the final key takeaway that I have and I love this one is there is no right leadership style, and I have seen toxic leaders be toxic, not because they are truly poor leaders, but because they've had poor leaders that they modeled and emulated their leadership styles. They don't know what right looks like, so they emulate others.
Speaker 1:You are unique. You're created by God and you have your own unique strengths and characteristics that were gifted to you from God and I'm not shy about my faith, I boldly declare it and you need to understand what those are. Find your leadership style, but also understand that a leadership style, in essence, is like the water it is malleable. It's like trying to control an ocean you can't, but you can learn to ride the wave. And that's exactly what I talked about in this podcast episode. Stop getting fixated on a specific type of leadership style and just be your true, authentic self and adapt to the situation. And if you can do those things, you are going to knock it out of the park because you're serving your organization at an authentic and vulnerable state. And when you become vulnerable not vulnerable about just whining and crying about everything in life, vulnerable about being authentic, accepting that you don't know all the answers, being humble, what we talked about in this podcast episode then you're going to achieve great things, your organization is going to achieve great things and you're going to stop chasing success and you're going to start chasing significance.
Speaker 1:But I want to leave you with this note and I always leave it with it, but I have tons of other leadership resources. I'm actually in the process of updating my website and making it a little bit more professional, but it would mean the world to me if you could do some things. First is share this podcast, but it would mean the world to me if you could do some things. First is share this podcast. Share it with everyone. Everyone in life is a leader. You have to learn to lead yourself. Share this with service members, who need to hear this episode. Share with civilian leaders. Share with managers, it doesn't matter. Share this podcast episode and help me extend my message and make my vision come true of impacting 1 million lives in the next nine years.
Speaker 1:Number two leave me a five-star review. It doesn't matter what episode you listen to or what platform you listen on. The fastest way that I can help extend my influence out there in this world is by getting more shares and more reviews, cause it's like throwing a pebble in the water one ripple here, one ripple there. It's not noticeable, but when I have you guys helping me well, then we start throwing a thousand pebbles and becomes noticeable. You cannot ignore it anymore. So help me build that.
Speaker 1:And then number three is support the show. If you like what you hear, you can go to tales of leadership. You can go to make million leadership coachingcom. You can go to the buzzsprout hosting site and you can support in a monetary means and everything that I get a hundred percent goes back towards creating powerful content and becoming combat multiplier for myself. So I can continue to create great content for you guys. And also go follow me on social media Instagram, linkedin and Facebook. Join our private Facebook community. Purposeful, accountable Leaders. I would absolutely love to have you, but as always, I'm your host, josh McMillian, saying every day is a gift. Don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.
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