Tales of Leadership
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Tales of Leadership
Episode 95 with Morgan Sullivan
Morgan Sullivan is a father to four exceptional children and a husband to a wife he believes he doesn't deserve. Morgan grew up in a small town in southeastern Ohio, where his days were spent working on a farm and engaging in sports. He pursued higher education at Heidelberg College and earned a bachelor’s degree in psychology. On September 12th, 2002, Morgan joined the Army, dedicating over 20 years of service that led him to various states and countries. His military career exposed him to diverse experiences, allowing him to meet exceptional individuals and navigate exciting and challenging scenarios. Morgan has extended his leadership to coaching baseball, softball, boys’ and girls’ basketball, and football across developmental leagues to high school varsity levels. Currently, he serves as a high school athletic director, focusing on supporting the coaches and student-athletes at West Liberty-Salem High School.
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You're listening to the Tales of Leadership podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader what I like to call a pal. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership. All right team, welcome back to the Tales of Leadership podcast. All right team, welcome back to the Tales of Leadership podcast. I am your host, josh McMillian, an active duty army officer and the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching, and I am on a mission to end toxic leadership and build a better leader what I like to call a purposeful, accountable leader or a pal and my vision is to impact 1 million lives in the next 10 years by sharing transformational stories and skills. And in today's episode, I'm super pumped. I get to bring on a friend of mine that I've known for a very long time, morgan Sullivan. He is a purposeful, accountable leader and have him share his transformational story with you.
Speaker 1:So Morgan is a father of four amazing kids and he always says this and a husband to a wife he does not deserve. I'll tell you he is one of the best men that I've ever known or worked under. He grew up in a small town in Southeast Ohio, working on a farm and playing sports. Morgan attended Hyden Dell College and earned a bachelor's degree in psychology. Then he shipped off to the army. He joined the army because of 9-11.
Speaker 1:And this episode is recorded on 9-11. I'm telling you right now, god has a plan for us all, and this just. I have goosebumps filming this episode because everything happens for a reason and this was meant to be of having him on at this time. And since then he's retired, with over 20 years of service which took him to many different States, many different countries, multiple deployments, and now Morgan is now working as a coach and he has coached baseball, softball basketball and all the way up to football varsity league. He's now a high school athletic director where he gets to serve the coaches and student athletes at west liberty salem high school. So welcome, morgan salvin, on without further ado. Let's jump right into it, morgan. Welcome to the tells the leadership podcast. Brother, how you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great man. Thanks for having me. It's going to be great to catch up with you and just talk shop a little bit.
Speaker 1:So we got a chance to kind of talk right before we started the podcast episode. But so everyone who's listening Morgan probably knows a lot of my dirty secrets, because we were in the same battalion together, especially while we were deployed, and he had to suffer through all of. My second lieutenant isms like a brand new lieutenant in the Army as the night battle captain and we'll probably get into one of those funny stories. But before we do, brother, just take the time to kind of introduce yourself to the listeners. Who is Morgan Sullivan?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm a happily, luckily married man. I've been married over 20 years now to this wonderful woman that I don't deserve. You know she's blessed me with four kids and you know the best roles that I've got is husband and father. Sports nut, you know, every chance I get I'm playing something, coaching something. You know, just if I can watch sports, play sports, coach sports, I love it. I'm here to help. Whatever I can do, I love to help people.
Speaker 1:My heart's out there for anybody who needs anything in general, just in terms of like leadership, is that you served your country for over 20 years in the army, both sides of the hat as a non-commissioned officer and as an officer and then what do you do when you get out? You continue to serve, but you go into youth coaching and that that is probably one of the most thankless positions and we'll get into that. But I just want to say thank you, man. Like that continued service, not just to the nation but now to your community and to the youth base of where you're at right now. That's a huge commitment, so kudos to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it. It's really an honor to be in a position that I can serve. It's always good to see helping hands and to be able to be a part of that. I've had so many people that have really invested into my life and if I can ever give back, that's that's what I want to do. So I feel like I wouldn't be the man that I am if I didn't have so many good people around me, and if I can be a part of that for somebody else, you know, I feel like that's that's what I'm here for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100, know, I feel like that's what I'm here for. Yeah, 100 percent, man. So before we really start digging into your story, one of the questions I always love, starting off with everyone, is how do you define leadership kind of in your terms, and how has that changed or matured over the years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it has changed drastically over the years. Earlier in my life I kind of felt like leader was the boss, and very early in my army career that's what it was I was a team leader, so do what I tell you, type of thing, and it's been a journey. I think leadership is a journey and it's a fun ride for sure, Continually growing, learning more and developing that. But I think the way I look at leadership just anybody that needs it, just guiding them along that's what it's all about for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, man. I think I had just a little bit of a latency there. But yeah, I think one of the hardest things in terms of leadership when you're just starting out is that level of inexperience, and especially at a lower rank. But as you continue to go through those ranks, it seems that you get more authority. And when you get more authority, you go one of two ways you either become more of a micromanager and you want to micromanage your team, which will only carry you so far, or you learn the other side of really kind of unleashing your team in terms of mission command, and that's the two routes that we've always seen. And that's really kind of the journey that I'm on of trying to show people that, hey, you can be highly successful as a leader, but still give that authority away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's one of the great things about leadership is when you see somebody that you worked with develop into their own leadership positions and seeing them grow, and just knowing that I had maybe just a little bit of influence on that type of leadership and that that young person grow, that's you know. That's what I love. I love to see that, whether it's a young athlete that you know just learns how to throw a baseball, or somebody that is very seasoned in their leadership style, just learn something new. It's just really fun to watch.
Speaker 1:So let's start digging in into your leadership story. So, starting off at a youth, what were some of the lessons that you learned from your parents, your teachers, who were your mentors before you joined the Army?
Speaker 2:There were so many, we could probably start with my parents, since those are often the most influential. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing, they're often the most influential. My dad was a really, really hard worker. He was always working hard to do something, whether it's around the house on the property. But he had a heart of gold also and he was out doing things for other people all the time and seeing how he was very good at directing and managing and had four or five people around him on a construction site and tell him where to go, what to do and how to do it construction site and you know, tell them where to go, what to do and how to do it. And that's one of the one of the lessons I learned was to be able to pass those things along and let them do their thing and sometimes it's not always going to be as successful as if you told them everything, but it's a learning point for them. And then seeing that growth and see that project completed and that's something I learned a lot from my dad. My mom on the other side was very fun, jovial, just enjoyed life and just had a good time everywhere, and to be able to mesh those two things together is where I think that's my core is really working hard, doing a lot and trying to get a lot accomplished, but enjoying the ride as well, and it was fun seeing those two dynamics work together and kind of grow from within that.
Speaker 2:And then on the coaching side, I had some really good coaches in my younger years. Dale Witt was a Pony Pony League seventh and eighth grade baseball coach and he was very good at just letting us do what we thought we should do and seeing if it was a success or a failure and let us learn on our own. He was a good coach. He was very instructional but at the same time he really let us learn on our own and that was a huge blessing because I got to grow a lot at that time. And then high school football coach Jack James he was another big time manager did a lot of great things with the team and he was a good motivator and that was really cool to see too. That was something that was a little new to my you know my style seeing how excited he could get and how well he motivated us. So just little aspects from a lot of different people growing up really helped me a lot, a little bit of wisdom from everyone.
Speaker 1:So your dad taught you really how to put in the work and put your nose to the grindstone and that hard work and a little bit of elbow grease will get you everything that you want in your life. And then your mom teaches you hey, yes, you need to work hard, but you also need to have fun, which I think is one of the most critical aspects to leadership that no one ever talks about, because everyone always just wants to go achieve results, achieve results, achieve results. And I see it now where I'm at in my military career, and I know you saw this too especially when you make that transition from a company grade officer to a field grade officer, the paradigm begins to shift, where individuals now are focused more on their careers versus focused more on people and soldiers, and they start to kind of they just stop having fun. Most majors that I've seen now they all hate their life and I think it's because they've stopped learning to have fun.
Speaker 1:That's one of the things that I love about podcasting is that I this is kind of like a decompression for me, because I get to talk about what I love, and I love that. Last thing that you shared is that your, if you fail, it's better to fail in a controlled environment than to fail when it actually matters, when everything is on. That's a beautiful nugget and I wanted to make sure that I just kind of hit that again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, being able to fail, especially for somebody as hardheaded as I am, being able to fail on your own. You know you can learn some pretty good lessons that way and you know understanding the sometimes the importance of it, sometimes it's the embarrassment of it. You know, it's just different, different dynamics depending on what the situation you're in. But being able to fail and learn how to not fail is, I think it's a really valuable skill for sure, so kind of continuing on your leadership journey.
Speaker 1:when you're youth, what drove you to want to serve and begin your service in the army?
Speaker 2:Really, that decision was today, september 11th.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, perfect, Perfect recording.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting timing on this one. Yeah, my dad was in the Navy. I come from a military family, although they were never serving when I was after I was born it was all prior to me being born but they all had stories and I had Marines, air Force and Navy all across my family. So I decided to go in the army Best choice ever. But, yes, sir, yeah, a lot of military talk growing up from kind of ribbing each other, talking some trash about each other's service, you know, like we do.
Speaker 2:And then you know some of the really cool stories from my dad and my uncle's time in Korea, really post-Korean conflict you know not that we were still there, but we were still there, type of thing. And you know, just hearing a lot of those stories, I thought it was really really interesting, really cool, Just something that I always had in the back of my mind. And then, when September September 11th happened, I was I was in college at the time and I was a really angry 22 year old young man called my dad, just, you know, frustrated about the whole thing. And he just says well, what are you going to do about it? So the next day I called a recruiter and actually called a recruiter, gave him a fake name because I knew they were going to badger me if I, if I gave him all my real information. But yeah, I called a recruiter, got all the information and just a couple of months later went to, went to MEPS and joined.
Speaker 1:So you were in college. So I know this, because you started off as a noncommissioned officer. So you were in college and then you chose to join the military as a noncommissioned officer. So you were in college and then you chose to join the military as a non-commissioned officer, and so I didn't know that about you. And I guess, before we continue to explain that to everyone, most individuals that go to college get out and are an officer, so they're a first lieutenant, a second lieutenant or a captain, based on whatever profession they choose, and that's one of the benefits of going to school first is that you get out and you become a commissioned officer. What Sullivan did was, in my mind, even more of a reason why I love you in terms of a servant leadership is that you had something that you're deeply passionate about and you wanted to go to do that, and you didn't even get the benefits of going to college first. You chose to follow your heart, so kind of, walk me through that. Um, what? What was your decision to to do that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I uh. I actually I did graduate college before joining the army.
Speaker 1:I actually I did graduate college before joining the army, but I redact everything I just did. Sorry say that again. No, I said I take back everything that I just said. Nice about you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I did. I did graduate, went into, went into the army after that and my recruiter really pushed me to go to all-star candidate school right out of right out of the gate and my dad really recommended spending a little bit of time enlisted and learn the ropes there. He was enlisted his entire career and actually I don't think any of my uncles or my dad none of them were commissioned officers and he recommended that pretty heavily. And then I had an uncle on my mom's side who retired from the Air Force and he recommended the same thing. So I took their advice and went on the enlisted side and spent almost seven years enlisted and had a blast. It was a lot of fun, really learned a lot and I really valued that time.
Speaker 2:Because then when I did go to officer candidate school down the road and and became a platoon leader, when I'm talking to the squad leaders I'm talking to the team leaders of the platoon sergeant like I've sat in that seat. So I really tried to to continue holding that perspective. You know, as I was talking to a squad leader, you know I understood it from their perspective and I really tried to empathize with that from that side and some of the times I had to go and say hey, listen, I know you're not going to like this because you know I've been in your shoes when this come down the pipe, but I'm sorry we got to go do this. And other times I'd go back to the company commander and say hey, sir, listen, you know I can tell you from experience this is not the right answer and hopefully fight some of those battles and help that out a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1:So having that perspective was extremely valuable. I think that's every officer that I've ever kind of worked for. The most successful ones that I've noticed were were non-commissioned officers beforehand. Then it doesn't even matter how long they were a non-commissioned officer. I think the reason is you just hit the nail on the head is is trust when, when you speak as uh, you know, first lieutenant, your words carry weight and people will listen to you. Because you've walked the that path? And and in my mind I think there's only a couple of ways to build trust One you do it through a traumatic environment, like you and I sharing our Afghanistan experience. That that bonded us, I think, forever for sure.
Speaker 1:Or you have walking that path already and you have that education and wisdom, and it's not lost on me to have how much responsibility. Looking back at it now, it's crazy to me. I didn't fully embrace it when I was a lieutenant, but how much responsibility a brand new lieutenant has Straight out the gate. You're in charge of 44 soldiers well-being including their families. In charge of 44 soldiers well-being including their families. And then you're also signed for, depending on the organization, 60, $70 million worth of equipment.
Speaker 2:That is a tremendous amount of responsibility for a 22, 23-year-old? Yeah, absolutely. And even being I was a platoon leader at what? Eight, eight and a half, nine years in the Army and at that time, looking at looking out of the formation, seeing what I like you're talking, the big numbers there, seeing what I signed for and all that equipment, and then looking out at all these guys just looking at me for the answers there were, there were times I felt overwhelmed. I said, man, you know I don't, I don't know if I can do this. You know I got all these guys that I'm responsible for putting together training for, got to make sure they're prepared. You know we're going to get ready to go to Afghanistan, let's. You know that's trying to stress the importance of that.
Speaker 2:Uh, at that time when I was a platoon leader, a lot of the young guys, they just couldn't wait to get over there. And I kept telling him like guys, slow down, slow down, you don't want to go there. You know, like I, I get it Cause I was there once too. But please listen like, take this, take this training seriously, cause you know, you never know which part of this training is going to be the one that you need. So it was a lot of a lot of pressure. My platoon sergeant and I had a lot of conversations regarding how to train these guys. Who needs what? You know what stick lanes is set up in the back 40, in the backyard of the barracks or whatever it is. Just get these guys trained up and there's a platoon leader. It's a heavy responsibility, for sure.
Speaker 1:You remind me of a story. So I was that lieutenant right Like coming out of the the night battle captain position, kind of like, eager to to prove myself. Yep, I remember that. But I had a complete pivot point in my mind when I was at um sergeant rodriguez's memorial, so I knew I was taking over, ergo um first platoon, and I was that lieutenant who wanted to go in, get into firefights and then take it to the enemy. But sitting in that memorial, because I've never been in a situation like that, you know, as a brand new lieutenant, really no experience beforehand and just seeing the emotions from the platoon that I'm taking over, you know, mackie the xo up there crying like a baby. Captain wolfschleg the XO up there crying like a baby, captain Wolfschlegel at the time up there crying like a baby, and then meeting my platoon Sergeant afterwards and then him just Sergeant Kearns. Now, it's a crazy world. By the way, he was the first Sergeant of the very first company that I commanded at Fort Polk. So it's funny how we just follow ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, it's crazy world.
Speaker 1:But sitting in that memorial and thinking, man, how selfish am I that I came here with an agenda and I shifted my agenda at that point to the men and women that I led. How can I get every single person home safe? And I didn't have that realization. Luckily I found it before I took over a platoon. But it even dug in deeper to me the night that I was taking over my platoon. They were out at the patrol base. If you remember that patrol base, it was like right on the Argon Dob by Cop Dagobod. So you had to go out for like 24 hours and come back. I was at Cop Dagobod waiting for my platoon and Captain Wolf, scheigel and Mackey at the time was like hey, dude, your platoon is going to be here in 24 hours. That's where they're sleeping. Go, get ready and just thinking to myself all right, this is, this is it. It's. And I was so nervous that night, man, I didn't even sleep a lick.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, but that's that's the responsibility. Oh yeah, oh yeah, but that's that's the responsibility. Once that sets in and I think just about every leader at any level that I've talked to that's been in Iraq, afghanistan, africa, wherever it was they've all had that moment where they said this responsibility is on me.
Speaker 1:What made you shift and pivot from being a non-commissioned officer to an officer? You spent seven years. What made you want to make that change?
Speaker 2:So we were in Iraq for my third deployment to Iraq and I was in a scout platoon there having a blast. That scout platoon was awesome. It was so much fun, we did so many good things over there and I was just loving it ready to. I kept doing that my entire career, if my body would hold up. And I had a conversation with the SAR major. He called me in one day and it was probably three months or four months before we were going to rotate back home and he said when we get back, we're going to move you down to Bravo company and give you a platoon. Be a platoon sergeant down there. And uh, you know, I thanked him for the opportunity and in the back of my mind I'm thinking I don't want to do that. You know, I want to stay doing this.
Speaker 2:And uh, had a couple of conversations with a couple of guys, one of which was my S1 at the time, and he said he said, hey, well, you know, they just they just opened up Officer Candidate School and there's no board anymore. You just submit a packet. And I thought I don't care to do that. So he, he talked to me a little bit and said you know you should it's, there's a lot of opportunities out there. And he, I didn't know anything about the, uh, the VTIP program. You know all the different, uh, all the different jobs out there. I just I didn't care.
Speaker 2:Infantry was infantry, was it to me, you know. So, uh, he gave me a, gave me a little pamphlet or a booklet that he printed out and and I read through it over the course of a couple of days and I went back and said, hey, this, this doesn't sound too bad. So, and he said something that kind of rung, rung pretty deep in my heart. He said, well, if you're gonna, if you're gonna go and sit behind a desk as a platoon sergeant anyway, why don't you go get paid more for it? And I thought, well, it's not really going to get paid, is the answer.
Speaker 2:But if, if, as a platoon sergeant, I'm going to go, you know, kind of beans and bullets, that's what a infantry platoon sergeant works on a lot. Um, I thought, uh, well, maybe I can, maybe I can do something, do something more, do something bigger as a platoon leader. And uh, and he said, yeah, he said you could be a, you could be a, come back and be a scout platoon leader. And that's what hit me. I said, well, if there's a way to stay in the scout platoon, then that might be it. So end up, that never did happen, but but yeah, I thought I read a little bit.
Speaker 1:Your skills were used in other places. I was saying, your skills were leveraged in other places.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a little time right before, right before I went to become the chief of operations, uh, when we went over to Afghanistan, uh, that there was a scout platoon, s4 chief of operations triangle, uh, and three different, uh, three different lieutenants uh, that's battalion commander was talking about who? Who am I going to put where? And I tried to put my word in for the scout platoon and you see, that didn't work out. Yeah, but yeah, but yeah. It was over the course of a couple weeks Thought about that transition to the dark side, as my former NCO buddies have told me, and it worked out. It was a good time.
Speaker 1:And it worked out. It was a good time. I think you and I share this, but I think more non-commissioned officers need to make that pivot.
Speaker 1:To become an officer yeah, especially now and I'm not knocking on like the current generation, but it's it's a very hey, what can you do for me versus what can I do for you type of mentality, like a true servant leadership. And I just don't see that anymore, especially in the military. With a lot of the officers that I serve with, they make decisions based on if it's going to serve them. I've, I think I've been blessed from the opportunity to learn the hard way at a very young age in my my leadership career. But I, like I've always used the question in my mind how can I add value to my team and to my organization? I never go in with like an agenda of how how can I benefit from this.
Speaker 1:Because being an officer versus a non-commissioned officer and I think this is the critical point is that we move every you know, one to two years. Until you become a lieutenant colonel, you're moving every one to two years. And what does that force you to do? It forces you to have a transitional mindset of where you view people as objects to advance your career and they're just stepping stones to get to the other side and non-commissioned officers, you guys, before you went to the dark side, you're in a role for three, four, five years.
Speaker 1:There's a reason why the platoon sergeant's nickname is the platoon daddy right. There's a reason why the platoon sergeant's nickname is the platoon daddy right it's because he's there far after that lieutenant and probably outlives like several, and I think that that is an issue that the Army needs to try to address. Of hey, like the OERs and I think this is a perfect world I hear officers talk about their officer evaluation reports all the time because there's so much stress around that I, I, I, I think that that should just be kind of taken away, not necessarily in terms of like a hard, strict rule give the individual their, their rating of what they deserve, type set, but I'm curious on your mind like how would you try to solve that?
Speaker 2:Well, to one point you had a minute ago, my entire enlisted career was at Fort Campbell, kentucky. So we talk about I moved from one battalion to the next when my battalion disbanded but that whole six and a half years was all at Fort Campbell Kentucky. So I spent all that time in two different battalions and got to see numerous soldiers rotate through and countless platoon leaders and officers circulate through and that was valuable in itself. Towards the OER, my point of delineation from chasing this career.
Speaker 2:And I heard a captain, a young captain, say I've got a short time in this organization, I need to make an impact so I can get that, basically get that OER bullet to get promoted to major. And I said and we're not the same. You know that's not what this is about. You know it's about the soldiers and what you can do for them. It's not about what I can do for myself. And that's to your point. I think that's the mindset of a lot of young leaders is what can I do to further my career and further myself? To further my career and further myself? And you know I will say there's a point you do have to take care of yourself, but that's never the primary, that's never the forethought. Yeah, that hurt my heart.
Speaker 1:I would venture to say and argue with anyone. There's a Rob Bailey song and I can't remember. It's like if you give a damn and just care about people, everything will work itself out. It's like lyrics to one of his songs and I love Rob Bailey. It's like workout music, man. But I genuinely think if you show up as your authentic self, don't put any type of facade on, Just go be you and you care about your job, you care about your people and you care about the quality of the work, everything is going to work itself out.
Speaker 1:I was reading a book by James Clear, atomic Habits, and he talks about inside out thinking and I think most people are focused outside in thinking, and inside out is who am I, what's the process and what are the outcomes? Or who is the organization, core values, what's the process and what's the outcomes? Everyone's focused on the outcomes and then not the process and who they are as an organization. And I think that that's one of the issues that I see, at least nowadays, because the army has amazing core values as an absolute culture, but it's like I don't know. Recently I've just noticed that those values aren't held in the same esteem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think specifically the selfless service portion of the Army's core values is one that we're trending more away from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could not agree more, and this might be a great transition. Question, too, is from being a noncommissioned officer to being an actual officer, how was your leadership style changed? What was the dynamics between the two?
Speaker 2:What was the dynamics between the two?
Speaker 2:I'd say that's going from smaller, finer details. As a non-commissioned officer, sometimes you're working on where the finger is placed on the trigger and you know that comfortable firing position or selection of cover, selection of concealment, that type of thing and being able to take a step back and, as we talked about earlier, letting some other younger leaders do those things and working with them and developing a leader versus developing a soldier. That's where I think the transition from noncommissioned officer to officer really comes in. As a platoon leader, as you know, you've got four squad leaders. If you're full, you've got four squad leaders, eight team leaders and a platoon sergeant. That is really developing us more than we're developing them, but it's working through those leaders and starting to look at things from a bigger picture perspective, and that's where I think having both of those perspectives becomes extremely valuable. And a good lesson for me to take on was get as many perspectives as possible, because when I get a chance to see things from both sides, you can often come to a better conclusion with that.
Speaker 1:Great segue question what were some of the most influential leaders that you had in the Army?
Speaker 2:Oh man, captain Brian Peterson, did you see he was probably? Oh, I know.
Speaker 1:Before he was.
Speaker 2:You know BP.
Speaker 1:He was originally in right before. It was Halverson that took over for him, charlie.
Speaker 2:Company Halverson took over Choctaw. That might be right.
Speaker 1:It was either him or Seth Nason. One of the two.
Speaker 2:Nason was Bravo Company. I think Halverson took over Choctaw, I think you might be right. So I met. When I first got to Fort Lewis, the battalion was about to rotate back from Afghanistan. So I was on the rear detachment for about a month and a half and Brian Peterson showed up on the rear detachment as well and there were three of us in the S3 section, the Brigade S3 section of at that time, five to the striker brigade there. Um, and all three of us were prior service E6s and E7s and uh, we just the three of us just hit it off. It was golden, just a fantastic, fantastic trio, from working together to talking trash to grappling on the mat, just every chance we got. The three of us were we're really tight.
Speaker 2:And I rotated down to take over as a platoon leader and had had a fantastic time there as a platoon leader leader and had a fantastic time there as a platoon leader. And I got a note left on my computer, on my keyboard, one day that just said hope, your platoon leader time has been fun. And I thought what? I didn't know what this was, what's this all about? And I get a call later that day from Captain Peterson. He said hey, I just uh, I'm going to be taking over, uh, charlie company here in in a few weeks and, uh, you're going to go be, you're going to come up and be my XO. And I was like, I was excited about that, cause I was happy to go work with him again, but at the same time I didn't want. I didn't want my platoon leader time to be done. I was just just under, or just under 13 months as a platoon leader and I wanted to stay with the boys and take them to Afghanistan. And yeah, it wasn't a joke.
Speaker 2:A couple weeks later I was up in Charlie Company, becoming an XO there, and his in brief to me as his XO was if it has a dollar sign behind it, you're responsible for it. I don't want to have a flip or a change of command flip. When I leave here to get out of my office, I said all right, sir, I got it, let's go, let's do this. So over the next year and a half well, almost year and a half, just day in and day out of him giving me nuggets of wisdom, whether we were in the gym together talking about some lift out, doing some run on a Saturday morning at a random school track or navigating some brigade slide deck that he didn't want to do. So he sent me and told me what to say, that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:But he's a fantastic leader. I've never seen one person that can connect with so many people, from the random soldier in second platoon to the platoon leaders. To myself, even our first sergeant at that time wasn't the easiest guy to get along with, but he and Captain Peterson they meshed well and what I really took from him was I think one of the most valuable lessons is everybody has value, no matter who it is. Anybody can add value and you just have to find what that is and get that out of them, and he was a master at that.
Speaker 1:Dude, I love that man. I'm writing that down. Everyone has value, but it's up to you to find it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. A couple of his sayings were everybody has value. It's your responsibility to find it and use it. And time is the only scarce resource we can work with everything else. Wow, I love that man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I kept those in my back pocket from this episode and I want to share an additional leadership resource with you, and that is one-on-one leadership coaching through McMillian Leadership Coaching. So what do I do? I help leaders discover their purpose, create a long-term growth plan and take inspired action. I believe everything rises and falls on leadership and, regardless of where you are in life, one fact is true you are a leader of others, you are a leader of your family and, most importantly, you are a leader of yourself. To lead others well, that starts by leading yourself well. If you want to learn more, you can go to McMillianLeadershipCoachingcom and schedule a free call today. Back to the episode. A free call today. Back to the episode. So after your company command time, I know you moved up to the I guess the AS3 role for a while.
Speaker 1:Yep, and you were in that seat for at least the time that I was in the S3 shop, and I think you were there for a while too, and I was still as a platoon leader. When did you transition out of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So just before we went to Afghanistan, I had actually packed, spent way too much time in the motor pool packing Conexes. We had packed many of our Charlie Company connexes. He said, hey, you're going to be coming up here to work with us and you're going to be current operations. And I didn't know what that meant. And Dave Sprague took over as the Charlie Company XO at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that mountain of a man broke my treadmill in Afghanistan. So so this broke a lot of. Yeah, man, this dude, all right. So he played a football for the army. He's six foot eight, probably somewhere around there, and in his fighting weight he's like 270 pounds. So this, this knucklehead, right Full battle rattle in a rucksack running on my treadmill the only functional treadmill that we had at our company comp. And he comes in and tells me Josh, your treadmill is not working. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, I broke it. I was like, what do you mean? He's like? I tried to do a ruck run. I was like, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Dave. So he was a platoon leader when I was XO for a while and down there packing Connexes. One day there was five or six of us down there trying to like five or six dudes, you know this, these stud infantry soldiers trying to lift this big box up and put and put it up towards the top of this Connex on top of some other things, because the only way it was going to fit in there is get it up on top, slide it all the way to the back. Uh, sprague comes walking out and he says you guys get that side, I'll get this side. We pick that thing up and put it in the connex, with sprague on one side and five of us on the other side. Oh wow, there's something. There's something wrong with this picture like somebody's going to take a picture of this.
Speaker 1:I need to see that picture, oh man, so after, well, I guess I picture oh man, so after, well, I guess I, I, I would, uh, not, I would regret not asking this question when I, when you and I first met, right, what were your initial thoughts? I would love to hear it.
Speaker 2:Oh man, uh, hard charging young dude, uh needs aatoon sergeant to slow him down. Yep, I think that would be about it. I think we knew there was a couple of you guys you being one of them that we felt these guys are going to be successful. When these guys are platoon leaders, these guys are going to be good. But, just like every young lieutenant, you got to have somebody to to guide you along, and I know from from listening to this podcast in the past, kearns. Kearns did that with you and I think he was a good guy for you for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, I still say this to this day and I've worked with some phenomenal non-commissioned officers, especially my first sergeants that I had in my company commands. Kearns is still, by far hands down, the best non-commissioned officer I've ever worked for, because he was the right leader at the right time to mold me into the leader that I am today. I would not be.
Speaker 2:And that's what we all need, man. So when?
Speaker 1:did you leave Fort Lewis and what was your next assignment? When did you kind of make that transition out of the Army?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So after we got back from Afghanistan on that rotation I went to the captain's career course down to Benning, spent six months down there and started to see some of the writing on the wall.
Speaker 2:My body's not quite what it used to be and I didn't feel that I could be the infantry company commander that these young soldiers needed. You know I can't get out there and run with them if I can't do that sort of thing. So I spent a couple of weeks talking to a few members in Building 4 down there at Fort with them, you know if I can't do that sort of thing. So I spent a couple weeks talking to a few members in Building 4 down there at Fort Benning, georgia, and ended up conducting a VTIP while I was down there Voluntary Transfer Incentive Program. I got out of the infantry and went to AG becoming S1. And coming out of the career course, I ended up going to the Columbus Ohio recruiting battalion um right in in the middle of Ohio, uh, and then from there went to the Lansing MEPs and retired from there officers fully understand because the army, in particular out of the air force and the marine corps and the navy, has such a huge um v-tip pull I.
Speaker 1:I think there's like for sure, dude, I can't remember, but I think there's like something around like 59, like don't quote me on that, but like 59 functional areas that you can go into. And you know, you know, for example and I only found out about this because of Mason kind of pointing us to this, lane Berg being one too of, and that's where I'm at right now working in an SMU or a special missions unit of acquisitions and acquisitions is a super cool job that no one really ever tells you about, especially when we're in the infantry. I feel that everyone always talks about you know, follow your path as a boss, like, hey, you're not successful unless you follow my path, and they never look at all the different tools that you can actually have or tell your subordinate it's like, hey, this is everything that is open and available to you, and I really wish they would have done that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that whole VTIP program is, as you were saying, is so broad, so many options and even within a lot of the functional areas, there's just so many things to do, so walk me through that transition out of the Army.
Speaker 1:Where did you kind of view yourself and what were some of the challenges that you had to work through?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Still working through. Yeah, yeah, it was the first time in my adult life that I didn't have the stability of the Army. That's one thing you always knew. As long as you want to stay in the Army that's one of the differences of an officer versus enlisted. Enlisted, you keep re-enlisting. Always a paycheck, always a house, always. You know it was just consistent. And then all of a sudden that's not the case anymore and, as it worked out, it was August 1st of last year that I retired from the army and August 1st of last year that I retired from the Army. And August 1st of last year is when I started this job as a high school athletic director. It worked out pretty well. I was actually on terminal leave for about three months, saved up enough leave to just hang out on terminal leave for a while.
Speaker 1:Well deserved, by the way. Yeah, yeah, but about the first two or three days that was really cool, and then I started to get pretty bored.
Speaker 2:But once the beard starts getting scratchy, you start getting that itch to go do something, right, right, yeah, uh, about a, about a month or month and a half into that, I started thinking, okay, so now, now it's about time to get real about. Uh, you know what you're going to do and you know what. What's the job going to look like, what's life going to look like, you know how are you going to provide for the family and all that. And uh, uh, took a couple online classes, uh, along the real estate line and planned on doing that. Uh, still not excited about it, just thought it was kind of a means, you know.
Speaker 2:And then I got a call. My wife called me one day. She got a call from her dad, who coaches here, that the athletic director that's been here for nearly 20 years decided he was stepping down. And I just said, well, that's a sign. She said what do you think you want to try? So I did what I do. I just dived into living and breathing, learning athletic director life for for two or three days and I said, all right, let's try this.
Speaker 1:That was going to be the next question I ask you is where did you get that spark for coaching? And I think that was what was it there in that moment, or was it when you actually first started coaching?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've. I've coached for a long time. Uh, even when I was in college and I came home for the summer, I coached little league baseball to sport. Sports is just that's my life. Um, even in Afghanistan, we're out there playing flag football.
Speaker 1:Oh, I remember you guys had a bunch of fun after I left, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, speaking of Captain Walsh Lego, uh, I still remember he dropped a uh, he dropped the touchdown pass that would have had us had us winning. Uh, the last game we played there, oh yeah, probably shouldn't have brought that up, but but uh, yeah, no, sports is. Sports is life, it's just. Sports did so much for me. Growing up, the reason I went to college was continue playing baseball. Um, jokingly, I say I went to college and played baseball and found a wife and accidentally got an education. You know, just, sports is it. Just it did so much for me, from the life lessons that you learn in sports to just having fun being physically active, the challenges that come with that and had some really good coaches pour into me and mold me into really from a pain in the neck little kid to not so much a pain in the neck anymore, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, more of a shepherd. I think that the way I see you and I view you is the way I remember you when I was a lieutenant and I always looked up to you because you were, you had a level of maturity and wisdom that I did not. I was a javelin fire and forget it. I was going to go back and then I'll figure out the consequences afterwards With you. Everything was very thought out and deliberate and I will remember that one storyboard. I won't go into it because it's kind of not a good story to get into, but there was basically a Taliban hit on a truck driver outside of our comp and I was the night battle captain. I had to do a storyboard on it to send it up to the RC South basically leadership. So, of course, me being me, it's like I'm just going to write some things in there real quick. And I sent it up and Lieutenant Colonel Harkins is like please, god, tell me. You did not send that up. And so then I figured out like all right, how can I recall this?
Speaker 1:And I finally figured out a way to how to recall it and in my haste, because I never slowed down I send an email out. If you get this email, please disregard. Sorry, for I supposed to say inconvenience, but I said incontinence.
Speaker 2:I was like then he pulls me in his office Colonel Harkins with another colonel.
Speaker 1:He's like here's, that lieutenant has the incontinence problem and I mean, what are you talking about? I have no ideael.
Speaker 2:He's like here's that lieutenant has the incontinence problem and I and me is like what are you?
Speaker 1:talking about? I have no idea. And he's like read that email you just sent out to all of rc south. I'm like, oh my god, yep, well, my army career is over, so at least I made it through that obstacle yep, and that's uh.
Speaker 2:That's part of part of what I think I saw in you was myself in year one, two and three of my Army career. It was whatever the challenge was, I don't care, it's in my way, it's not going to be for long. That was my mindset for quite some time and it worked sometimes. And just understanding some of those hard-headed lessons that I had to learn, I got good at push-ups as a young soldier. There were some hard-headed lessons there, for sure.
Speaker 1:And that makes me think about too, is that I think everything happens for a reason. So Captain Klon was my sister company commander through iBolic that we're training with Sergeant Kabyab and we can get in the whole podcast episode, you know, or Captain Klein?
Speaker 2:I'd love to have him on here. No kidding.
Speaker 1:Sergeant Kabyab was my squad leader for my iBolic class and he was my weapon squad platoon sergeant when I got. And then I had David Jones, who's now a first sergeant. I had David Jones, who's now a first sergeant. I had David Francis. I had a phenomenal group of not literally every single not the squad leader that I had platoon sergeant I had team leader. That I had was just hands down, Awesome, Um, and it was easy to look good as a as a platoon leader because I had such a great team. I literally had to do nothing, Um, and I would have been successful because that's such a great team. I literally had to do nothing and I would have been successful because that's how awesome they were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where you look at and say I just can't mess this up, I just got to stay out of the way.
Speaker 1:So kind of keep going into where you're at right now. What were some of the leadership lessons that you took from the military and you apply now with coaching, with youth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the job that I'm in now as athletic director. It is amazing to see the similarities of a platoon leader role. It's my job to help these leaders do the best they can for the kids they coach. And similar to what you were just saying. I am in a position right now with some extremely tenured coaches, future Hall of Fame coaches, just some amazing people around me, and I jokingly said it's like bumper bowling Y'all just keep me in the lane. So my job is to facilitate this and stay out of their way and when they do need something I can help them.
Speaker 2:And bigger picture ideals I can help guide the athletic program, similar to what a platoon leader would do for the platoon and then let those coaches or squad leaders go in and handle their business. And knowing the Army and seeing handle their business and knowing the Army and seeing that analogy working through that it's helped me a great deal, seeing the strengths and weaknesses of my squad leaders and how I can support the weaknesses of the squad leaders, how I can supplement that. And then the same thing with the coaches. If one coach is not as good on the admin side, I can help work through that. Another coach needs some practice plans put together I can help work with through that. Another coach needs some practice plans put together. I can help with that. You're just the background helping to facilitate all that and kind of guide that program. It's been really interesting to see the similarities between those two positions for sure.
Speaker 1:I was looking through your website that you have to bettercoachingyouth, I think, dot com, and I was reading through the mission statement to improve the state of youth sports through the education of parents, players and coaches, and I love that because you're focused on the holistic approach.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of times, like when you coach, you coach the child, and that's how a lot of people view it. Every coach that I ever had they were coaching that youth member. But it's a holistic approach, just like when you lead someone, you're not just leading that employee, you're really leading that whole person. And what does that whole person come with? They come with parents, they come with a family, they come with an actual personal life. I think the same is true in coaching is, if you want the kid to be fully bought into the program, into the values, into the culture, into the organization, you also have to be able to educate the parent in terms of like kind of that coaching mindset, and then the coach too, which. So I was reading through that, it just dawned on me that I think to make a better player in terms of sports, you have to be able to have that holistic approach when you come to coaching. And how did you realize that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was through a good bit of coaching, mostly at the youth level, at that time when I first started putting that together. Time when I first started putting that together and seeing that when a young athlete leaves the practice they're on one page, whether that's a drill we worked on or a specific skill that we tried to develop or a character trait or whatever it may be. And then by the time they come back to the next practice or the next game, that has shifted. And then I had to take a look at what happened between those two time periods and the general. The general concept was they went home and what happens at home? And you got a family that at the dinner table is talking negatively, negatively about the team or the coach or other players or whatever it may be, and then the kid is conflicted because the kid doesn't know, the kid has a coach saying one thing, parents saying another thing, and now you put this eight, nine, 10-year-old young athlete into that confliction point. That's challenging. It's challenging for the team, challenging for the coach and challenging for that young athlete.
Speaker 2:And generally when we take on a new role, we go through some sort of education for that, whether that's in the Army and you go to Ibolik to become a platoon leader or whether it's in the private sector. As a civilian, there's education, a probationary training period before you can become this job. But as a youth sports parent or just a general sports parent, that's a new role that we take on that we don't have any education for. There is education out there. There are organizations that really try to focus on helping the parents understand what's best for the youth athlete and what's best for the team, and some of our natural responses are not really what's best for that youth athlete. But that information is not very not widespread. So that's where the education piece came in is trying to educate. Of course you want to educate the athletes and the coaches, but it's important to educate the parents as well on really how to be the best sports parent that you can be for your youth athlete.
Speaker 1:I think part of being successful, regardless of whatever you want to do so we'll just use sports for this is that you have to surround yourself with the right people, but you also have to put yourself in the right environment to thrive.
Speaker 1:Then, dude, you're spot on, and I put in my old hat on when I was in high school playing football. Pat Whitlock, if he ever listens to this, I'm sorry for everything that I put you through in my youth, but there was always so much negative self-talk between the parents about that man and I was very conflicted because I was always thinking of, like well, my mom and dad and my grandmother and everyone talks so bad about him. There has to be something about it. So I had this persona of what you're telling me I'm not going to listen to you because my parents don't respect you. And if my parents don't respect you, why should I Subconsciously like at the time I had no idea, but me looking back now with kind of the maturity that I've kind of gained throughout the years, that that's crazy. It's never dawned on me. So kudos to you that you can actually connect those man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a. I think education is important. It's not the end-all be-all, but if there's an organization out there that has asking for advice on one aspect of their sports experience or another and many times it's just simply you know. Hey, thanks for the question. Here's a great resource, you know. Click this link and you know the information is already there. Whether it's Michigan State's Institute for the Study of Youth Sports or Rutgers Youth Sports Research Council or many numerous other organizations, the information is out there. You just just have to go find it. And if I can put together a Web site that could, it could be helpful and collect those pieces of information, I'm happy to do that. For sure, I'm happy to do that for sure.
Speaker 1:Dude, you just outlined the first 100 episodes of your podcast, 100 questions that people have asked. You Talking beforehand, thinking about wanting to get a podcast. I don't think there's any more thinking to it. You need to do it, man, because there's probably such a huge audience that could benefit from it, and it's the same reason I'm doing. What I'm doing is I'm trying to build better leader, to show that there's another way to lead. With you, you're trying to build a better youth sports program, not just a player right, but a better program holistically. And what does that do? It builds strong communities. So you need to do it, and I go back to that quote you have on your website by Pat Riley Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better. I do, I love it, man.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, I appreciate what you're doing, man. This, this is good stuff.
Speaker 1:So the last question before we get to our final show segment. I try to be respectful with time and to be about an hour. I haven't even got through. I have so many questions but we had a lot of offshoots. But I love it, dude. So the last question I want to ask you is what do you think are some of the most important qualities of a good leader?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think good leaders care about the people they work with, whether that's up down, left or right, everybody around you. You care about them, care about making them better, really pouring into them and letting them know that you believe in them, you support them and you're here for them. That's really important. And understanding how to communicate as I mentioned, captain Peterson was a master at that Understanding how to communicate. Different people require different communication methods and have different communication styles. So being able to communicate effectively to everyone around you and, lastly, just just pushing, just uh, you know we're not, we're not stopping and if, if I've got to lead you there, just jump on, let's go for a ride.
Speaker 1:Dude, I wrote down three C's while you were talking and I was trying to find another one. So care, communicate and clear. So just keep pushing forward. Yep, love it, man. It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the Killer B's. These are the same four questions that I ask every guest on the Tales of Leadership podcast Be brief, be brilliant, be present and be gone. Question one what do you believe separates a good leader from a great leader?
Speaker 2:A good leader understands the mission, understands what has to happen and understands how to get there. I think a great leader can influence and encourage everyone around them to come with them and we'll all go get there together.
Speaker 1:I love it. So second question what is one resource that you could recommend to our listeners?
Speaker 2:Oh, this the internet. It's out there. The YouTube videos, podcasts like this one, just resources, be resourceful, go find it, because if you've got a question, somebody solved that problem before you. The answer's out there, go find it.
Speaker 1:I love it, dude. So third question if you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 2:time and give your younger self a piece of advice. What would it be? Slow down, slow down. As a young man I didn't understand that kind of bullheaded. Just slow down and learn more. When I was in my late teens and young 20s I knew everything, and I knew more then than I know now, I think. So just slow down, listen and use those resources.
Speaker 1:I love it, dude. So last question how can our listeners find you and how can they add value?
Speaker 2:to you Anything, any advice you've got. I'm all ears. Let's make this all better together. At that website, betterusecoachingcom, there's a contact button on there. Send me an email, m Sullivan, at WLS Tigers dot org. Find me on Facebook, morgan Sullivan. However. However we can communicate, let's let's have a conversation.
Speaker 1:Morgan, this is the exact reason I love podcast, brother. I get to connect with someone that I've shared an experience with like almost 12 years ago to date, on 9-11. You joined the army because of 9-11. Dude, dude, it's been an absolute honor and a privilege this past hour to just reconnect with you, man yeah, it's been great.
Speaker 1:Josh, thanks for having me yeah, brother, hey, have a great night. All right, team, in this time for our after action review, that was a great episode with morgan and he's really shared a lot of wisdom, because he has a lot of wisdom. He's been in the military for 20 years, he's led several formations, he has had multiple deployments and he continues to serve. So what are the top three takeaways that you should have from this episode? One is the whole thing that I am trying to fight, and that is fighting against a transitional mindset, and I see transitional leadership as toxic leadership, especially in the military nowadays. And what do I mean by that?
Speaker 1:Transitional mindset views people as objects for your advancement. You always ask the question what can I get out of these people, what can I get out of this organization, what can I get out of this situation? That's the wrong question to ask. You should be asking the question how can I add value to my team, how can I add value to my organization? How can I become even better today than I was tomorrow? That's a transformational mindset. How can I make my team better today? How can I make my family better today? How can I make this country better today?
Speaker 1:Transitional mindsets kick the can down the road because they're just trying to advance their career, and that is a toxic mindset. As a leader, you never have an agenda. You should not have an agenda. Yes, you want to have advancements in careers and we talked about this in the military is that everyone's always chasing that OER, guess what dude and dudette. If you care about your job, if you care about the quality of work that's being put out, but, more importantly, you care about the people you're going to do well, everything will work out in the end. Don't stress out about the valuation. Enjoy the ride, have fun, but, most importantly, just care about people. Be authentic and genuine and get rid of that toxic mindset.
Speaker 1:The next one that I wrote down was a quote that he talked about from one of his major mentors. That he had is everyone has value. It's up to me to find it, it's up to you to find it. Captain Peterson talked about that. And what does that mean? It's the same thing that I've always tried to preach. We all have blind spots, we all have dead space. And what does that mean? It's the same thing that I've always tried to preach. We all have blind spots, we all have dead space. And what is dead space. Well, dead space in the military is that part of a terrain that you can't quite see. You can't have direct fire weapon systems placed on it. You can have indirect fire weapon systems on it, but you can't see it, so it's invisible to you. That is dead space, and we all have dead space, and most of our dead space is ourselves.
Speaker 1:And the only way to counter that dead space is to work on your weaknesses or develop a team that is so strong that they cover your weaknesses. And everyone has a unique strength. You, as the leader, have to figure out what that strength is and how can you apply their strengths, the team that you have to the mission set and that's one of the beauties about the army right now is that we all have a team that we inherit and we have to take that team to the finish line and we have to learn how to win with the team that we have. Not every team that you're going to be in charge of are you going to actually get to pick. That's just not how leadership works. You have the tools and the resources at your disposal, but they are the tools and resources that you inherit. You can't always change your team, so you have to learn how to lead that team.
Speaker 1:And this gets to the final one. The three C's Lead the whole person. And how do we do that? We care Genuinely care for people and their families. When you lead people, remember you're leading the whole person, you're not just leading the employee.
Speaker 1:Number two is communicate as a leader. As you grow through your leadership intelligence, you gain more authority and responsibility. It's imperative that you learn how to communicate effectively, both orally and written, and I am not a master at all. Doing this podcast definitely helps me in terms of my oral communication skills because I'm putting myself out there to this world. But you have to be able to communicate effectively to people, and the reason that you have to do that is you have to be able to show them the vision. You have to be able to tell them what the keys are to success. You have to show them what the end state is and you have to tell them what the task and the purpose is, and you have to tell them what the key tasks are so they can be successful. And the only way you can do that is if you communicate in a manner that they can fully understand.
Speaker 1:The last C is to clear, and I talk about this as being a sledgehammer mentality. As a leader, your job is to remove the obstacles in front of your team. And an obstacle has four effects and I've said it and I'll say it again block, turn, fix and disrupt. Your job is to ensure that no obstacles block, turn, fixes or disrupt your team, because you are a sledgehammer and you break down barriers. You always have to clear hey, team, do me a favor.
Speaker 1:If you like this podcast, if it adds value to you, it would mean the absolute world to me. If you share this podcast with someone who is just starting out on their leadership journey, I don't care of what level leadership there are. If they are a leader of their family, if they are a leader of their team or an organization or a community, share this podcast with them. And then the second thing go, leave me a review. It would help this podcast out tremendously if you leave a five-star review on Spotify and Apple and whatever platform that you're listening, because it helps me get discovered. And the last thing support. If you want to support this podcast, go to talesofleadershipcom or go to mcmillianleadershipco, coachingcom and you can finda to support this podcast. And, as always, you can go to McMillian leadership coachingcom or find me on social media and follow me. Until then, I'm your host. Josh McMillian, saying every day is a gift, don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.
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